[dragontamer]

> What's the point of buying packs?

Draft is probably the best MtG style of playing.

A lot of MtG turns into pay-to-win, since the best cards of the meta inevitably cost more. Drafting on the other hand, ensures that everyone has zero-cards upon the start of the draft and have to make due with the booster-cards that come in the draft.

In many ways, drafting is cheaper. You don't have to worry about making the best deck ever... instead you just have to make the best deck given the cards you draft. Then you can sell the expensive singles after the draft.

[solardev]

As a beginner, I think the drafts are a really unfriendly format that heavily biases experienced players (who know how different mechanics can combo each other, useful counters, deck balance, etc. by heart). I tried that with friends a few times but it was like trying to learn a new game every time, as fast as possible, so you can out-pick the cards before someone else grabs them. Personally I felt it shifted the gameplay from tactical card playing to race-to-viability in drafting.

In non draft games, either self made decks or pre-cons, you can spend time studying your deck and optimizing it before actual play starts. In drafts, much of the actual gameplay IS the drafting and gambling. The actual decks that get built are usually uninteresting, just fast aggressive combos that play like starter decks.

Thankfully I discovered Commander pre-cons, easily upgraded with some cheap singles, and have a lot of fun with that. Especially in 2v2 or free for all. It's all the stuff I love about card games (the deck building and tactics) without gambling. I'd much rather spend $50 on a precon and another $20 or so on singles, knowing exactly what I'll get, than buy or draft a bunch of random packs that almost never give me a useful deck in the end.

Just a matter of taste, I guess. I wish Magic weren't even collectible, personally, but a limited card game like the Fantasy Flight ones (game of thrones, arkham, etc.)

[rtkwe]

Personally even as a player who's pretty good at piloting a deck I dislike draft because it a) requires a good knowledge of the set I don't have the time or inclination to build to know what strategies are supported well b) has a lot of skill in reading 'signals' to have an idea of what colors are being heavily pulled from early enough to change directions and c) gluing that pile of cards into a deck that can be even a little fun to play or have a chance of winning.

[dragontamer]

It sounds like you don't know what to look for in Drafts.

On the 1st cycle, decks are passed to your right. Remember which colors are getting passed to you, especially on turn 7+ in the Draft. this tells you which colors players on your left are _NOT_ going.

On the 2nd cycle, booster-packs are passed to your left. Same same, you're getting information from the other side of the table, so you know what to hate-draft (a draft-pick to hurt someone, rather than help yourself) in the 3rd phase.

The drafting phase also tells you which bombs and removal cards to look out for. Of course, 1st deck / 1st pick bombs are always taken and are fully secret, but 3rd round, its unlikely that the rare is going to be in the colors of your left-side opponent. So there's a good chance that the rare-to-your-left is passed to you, giving you information on what that opponent has drafted (whether that card matched their deck or not).

There are also incredibly powerful commons (ex: Lightning Bolt a few years ago...) that would be 1st-draft 1st-pick and better than the rare. So if you're 2nd pick and there's a good rare on the passed deck, it means the person to your left is likely going red/lightning bolt 1st pick.

Or in another set, when Doom Blade was in format, that'd be the 1st-pick / 1st draft card as a very powerful removal spell despite being a common.

> that almost never give me a useful deck in the end.

But everyone has the same condition in a draft. The card pool is closed: everyone had access to the same card pool and is therefore nearly fair. Obviously if your 1st pack / 1st pick was much better than everyone else's, that's a bit of the luck to the draft.

The "goal" of Draft is to pick the color that "the table has ignored". If your 7 other opponents are white, red, blue, green, red, green, and white... then you can pickup all the powerful black-cards. The "winner" of the draft will likely be fought between blue vs black (the only two "uninterrupted drafters") in the table that set.

There's only so many good cards for any given strategy. If *EVERYONE* goes early-aggro / rushdown (IE: White/Red/Green), then the one guy who drafted all the control cards (Blue/Black) probably just beats everyone at the table.

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I'd say the main problem with Draft is the unbalanced nature of it all. If you're sitting to the right of a newbie who passes you good cards (or is otherwise ignorant of the Drafting format), you end up building a deck far more powerful than everyone else.

IE: The biggest advantage you can get in a Draft is sitting to the right of a newbie (2x rounds where you pass to the right). The 2nd biggest advantage is sitting to the left of a newbie (1x round where you pass to the left).

But if everyone at the table is of roughly the same skill level, its a great format. The drafting phase innately self-balances, as everyone is picking (and changing their picks) in relation to what they've been passed.

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> I'd much rather spend $50 on a precon and another $20 or so on singles,

Competitive decks "in the meta" are closer to $200 to $500 in my experience. 60x cards, and a chunk of them cost $20 to $80.

Preparation and Money ruins the game since you're just buying up known combos and 4x of the best $50 cards that on the last tournament...

[solardev]

> It sounds like you don't know what to look for in Drafts.

[snip]

Yeah, exactly. It's that whole meta-game I have zero interest in (competitive card-picking, as opposed to competitive card-playing). Just different strokes for different folks and all that.

> I'd say the main problem with Draft is the unbalanced nature of it all. [...] But if everyone at the table is of roughly the same skill level, its a great format.

That makes sense, especially in MTG where there are like 20,000 cards to choose from. The P2W can definitely come out.

Ironically that's actually one of the reasons I prefer another card game, Elder Scrolls: Legends (https://bethesda.net/game/legends), a Morrowind/Oblivion-themed digital card game that's technically "collectible", but they stopped making new cards a few years ago. Now it's just the same set of a few hundred old cards, but people still keep coming up with new metas without spending any more money. It's awesome, and there are no new overpowered cards to be surprised by, just interesting new uses of them. Despite having been technically abandoned, the community is still very active (no more than 20-30 seconds to find a match, which is sometimes faster than even MTG Arena!)

I feel like MTG suffered the opposite fate, where it became a victim of its own runaway success, and draft was popularized amongst older players who got sick of trying to keep up with the incessant power creep. Is that fair?

[dragontamer]

> Now it's just the same set of a few hundred cards, but keep still come up with new metas without spending more money.

That's called a "Cube" in Magic the Gathering.

https://magic.wizards.com/en/news/feature/building-your-firs...

https://mtg.fandom.com/wiki/Cube_Draft

We draft Cubes from our old collections all the time, to help recycle our older cards.

> That makes sense, especially in MTG where there are like 20,000 cards to choose from. The P2W can definitely come out. > Now it's just the same set of a few hundred cards, but keep still come up with new metas without spending more money.

A typical Draft's card pool is only ~300ish cards or so, whatever is in the newest set. Its actually small enough to memorize.

You don't draft booster-cards from all of MtG. A Draft is innately around the ~300ish cards of some set. Lost Caverns of Ixalan only consists of 291 cards.

[solardev]

> That's called a "Cube" in Magic the Gathering.

It wasn't super clear to me from that article, but does this mean everyone drafts from the same cube (like you combine cards and then everyone draws from them)? Or does everyone make their own cubes?

I think a difference there (vs a limited number of cards in the game, period) is being able to realistically know all the cards that can be played. There's not this surprise of "what, I didn't even know this ridiculous card exists" -- everyone's seen all the cards, dozens if not hundreds of times -- but it's up to them to create new and interesting combinations of those same cards. It's more chess-like in that way and less of an arms race.

> You don't draft booster-cards from all of MtG. A Draft is innately around the ~300ish cards of some set. Lost Caverns of Ixalan only consists of 291 cards.

Right, but that only lasts a few months, right? Or is it weeks now? Getting 291 unique cards would require many cases of cards (and thousands of dollars, probably?)... I tried that for one cycle and then stopped after realizing how expensive it gets, and how quickly too.

[dragontamer]

> It wasn't super clear to me from that article, but does this mean everyone drafts from the same cube (like you combine cards and then everyone draws from them)? Or does everyone make their own cubes?

A cube is 360 (total) cards that you tell all your friends about. Some of these cards are repeats (ex: 4x Elite Vanguards).

You bring those cards, you shuffle them up, deal out 15-to-each-person, and then start drafting (pretending this random-deal of 15 is "like a booster pack").

> There's not this surprise of "what, I didn't even know this ridiculous card exists" -- everyone's seen all the cards, dozens if not hundreds of times -- but it's up to them to create new and interesting combinations of those same cards. It's more chess-like in that way and less of an arms race.

Then keep to the same cube. Make everyone in your group know what cards are in the cube, ask questions about those cards before playing.

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The "owner" of the Cube is responsible for "balance patches" (Hmmm... Red is too strong. I'll replace some of these powerful Red cards with weaker ones). So its not completely static. But the general plan is to build a set that your group can "recycle" and grow to become experts in.

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> Right, but that only lasts a few months, right? Or is it weeks now? Getting 291 unique cards would require many cases of cards (and thousands of dollars, probably?)... I tried that for one cycle and then stopped after realizing how expensive it gets, and how quickly too.

You... look at the cards before entering a draft. Ex: https://www.magicspoiler.com/mtg-set/the-lost-caverns-of-ixa...

All of this information is published ahead of time. Some, more competitive, players even playtest / draft when the spoilers are released long before the Pre-release. Using computer software to emulate a draft.

The only money you put down in each draft is the 3x Booster Packs per draft (or if you're in an official event, the entry fee which also includes a bit extra for the prize-packs)

Draft-players don't "collect" the cards. You usually sell the cards after the draft.

[extraduder_ire]

I have always found it funny how there's a game format that requires you to buy new cards to play it. Though I doubt they invented it, it really works out for those selling the cards.

I'm sure there's a guide out there somewhere for repacking cards you already own though. Hopefully one that doesn't need one person to do it and not play because they know which cards are included.

[gigaflop]

I prefer a rich man's draft: Buy a box for myself, and see what I can cobble together.

- A magpie, with approx $300 of MtG on my desk rn