[londons_explore]

If I was the engineering team, I would be trying to eliminate all these noises.

Every single one of these could be engineered away. For example the pops and bangs at a supercharger is the metal shield deforming when heated. Instead, it should have circular ridges stamped into it around the fixing points to let it expand against the springiness of the steel.

The clunk noise from brakes could be engineered away by using stainless steel spring clips to prevent the pads being able to wiggle around in the calipers (used by many manufacturers already).

The clunk from the contactors opening/closing could be engineered away by having the contactors open/close far slower - with a proper precharge, no current is flowing, so there is no longevity benefit of fast close/open. Or... decide not to have contactors at all - I don't really see any reason they're needed, just keep the high voltage system always energized and design all the other components to have a suitably low leakage current. For maintenance and emergency de-energization, have a manual lever or a pyro-fuse.

[janoc]

It is a matter of priorities. If that was a high priced Bentley where the customer doesn't expect anything but the best for their money, sure, go ahead.

But for a Model 3 where you need to carefully manage costs or you will either price yourself out of the market (and Tesla is already at the high end of it!) or go bankrupt I think you will have much bigger fish to fry than dealing with such noises.

You also obviously don't understand the engineering decisions - e.g. having the high voltage always on is not possible/allowed. It is a legal requirement because it must be possible to disable the high voltage circuit when doing maintenance on the car - or in the case of an accident. And it needs to switch off the moment the airbags activate, it is not only there for the firemen to turn off.

Also having the high voltage circuit off when the car is parked reduces the risks of fire should anything happen (malfunction, another vehicle crashes into a parked Tesla, etc.)

Manual lever is of no use in such situations. Pyrofuses Tesla already has.

[londons_explore]

> having the high voltage always on is not possible/allowed.

I am aware of no law requiring that...

Plenty of other high voltage things are always on - for example the outlets in your living room are always live even if you aren't using the room.

The electrical danger of your house would be reduced by turning them off when you weren't in the room, but we decided it wasn't worth the complexity/cost to do so for the tiny benefit.

Electrical contractors in cars are in the same position IMO. It should be energised once in the factory, and then remain energised for the life of the car. Car service garages can have tools to de-energise and re-energise the HV system if necessary - rather like such tools exist to gas and degas aircon systems.

[mkoubaa]

I don't agree. Less noise means less vibration and harshness which means more mechanical reliability. It is economical to pursue at all price points.

[rootusrootus]

Newer cars don't make as much noise. My 2019 Model 3 was a popping banging noisemaker at the supercharger. My 2023 Model 3 barely makes any sounds at all. So they've clearly done some work to lower the sounds.

> The clunk noise from brakes could be engineered away by using stainless steel spring clips to prevent the pads being able to wiggle around in the calipers (used by many manufacturers already).

I've owned a lot of performance cars, and I don't know of any that didn't make noise. You're thinking of floating calipers, which are quieter and what most appliance cars use. Tesla is using fixed calipers, which most manufacturers only put on their performance trims. Making a bit of noise is just the nature of that design.

And the brakes aren't Tesla designs anyway, they're Brembo just like almost every other OE fixed caliper setup. I think Brembo knows how to make brakes.

[rijx]

Would you have delayed the first release to tackle these sounds? If so, any day not shipping products is a day closer to going bankrupt.

If you "fix" these sounds in v2, then you'll still need to explain them in the manual for v1 owners.

Ultimately it's not really a bug. People aren't used to cars being so quiet so some minor new sounds suddenly stand out.

[sigmoid10]

Sound design is an important part for many other manufacturers. There are literally people who's job it is to make sure that things like the "thump" of a closing door sounds good and on-brand. Though to be fair it's kind of an outgrowth of legacy car manufacturers who need to sell tiny bits of progress to stay relevant.

[dmix]

You mean when you physically close a car door they might shape the internal sound dynamics in either the frame or inside the door or adding some surface layer to the door itself?

[fragmede]

Both, and more. The hardware/software in the latch itself gets tuned to make the "thump" the "thump", and not a "thunk".

[ComplexSystems]

Do you think it took less than a day to implement "ludicrous" mode?

[ranman]

> Every single one of these could be engineered away.

You clearly didn't read half of the article. 50% of these are purposeful chimes.

Also, why? What is the value of making a compressor or fan more quiet on the 3? It would be much better to lower the cost. Worry about the sound on the higher end vehicles but let the 3 be low cost.

[dmix]

Especially considering the alternative people are coming from is a loud very noisy machine with lots of moving parts, the fact it makes any sounds is probably not a big deal in the sum of things. Maybe eventually as everyone is in EVs this will be something people notice/care about in a competitive product way and you could or try to eliminate or shape the sounds to be more pleasing beyond. It’d probably make iteration more expensive if it became a requirement.

Most of the time they operate with lots of ambient noise of the tires on the road and outside the car which probably makes a lot of these barely audible or noticeable.

[goldpizza44]

The sounds are not that intrusive...While others have pointed out the costs involved in solving them, the real question is "will muting each and every sound sell more cars?". Of course from an engineering point of view the other question is "are these sounds indicative of something that will fail prematurely?". The complexity of adding some sort of muting may introduce other modes of failure. Sometimes the best solution is the simple solution.

At this point in the EV marketplace the I would say the answer is no to both questions. Tesla is far better concentrating their engineering teams on new products that can continue their growth.

Now if some competitor comes up with a perfectly quiet car and that becomes a selling point, then it is time to revisit the engineering.

[groby_b]

"will muting each and every sound sell more cars?".

Maybe muting sounds won't. But a general focus on quality will. There's a good amount of potential customers who consider Tesla low quality. There's a good amount of EV competitors who deliver better quality, these days.

And, more importantly, it might not sell more cars next quarter. But not doing that will lead to a continued decline in perception, and that is a price that's only paid a few years later.

Growth mattered above all when Tesla was creating the market. That is shifting right now, and a "new products! growth!" approach won't be the winning strategy for much longer. And, most importantly, cars are not software. You can't fix reputational issues with a patch.

If Tesla waits until the competitors are quiet, it's too late. "We're almost as good as our competitor" is not a helpful selling strategy for cars. For most consumers, a car is a long-term (4-8 years) commitment, bought on a very reputational basis.

[seadan83]

Adding to peer comments, being perceived as a low or high quality brand does have a strong material impact to a business. It's the difference between, "Oh, you have a Tesla!" to, "Oh. You have a Tesla.."

[LargeTomato]

Tesla struggles with poor build quality and a lot of owners don't expect that, especially if they only listen to Elon Musk. Fixing the sounds won't sell more Teslas but a higher quality car would have already addressed them.

[hedora]

The government-mandated “safety” tone that EV’s play at low speed was invented by a marketing department. They wanted to be able to force everyone to play their audio logos.

Fast-forward a decade, and the bought-off regulators left for industry. The remaining transportation safety people in the US realized the tones are useless, since the sounds are not standardized and are therefore ambiguous and ignorable.

So, moving forward, they’ll standardize the noise, defeating its only practical purpose (branding). Sadly, they didn’t revisit whether it was actually necessary or helpful in the first place.

Our pre-tone EV makes plenty of noise at low speed due to various servos, capacitor whine, drivetrain gears/friction, and so on.

[benhurmarcel]

Of course there are ways to eliminate most noises. But at some point it’s not worth the cost.

[astrea]

Right. As they’re clearly cutting costs at their current price point /s

[two_handfuls]

Yes? Tesla historically cuts costs as much as possible, putting all the focus on an excellent electric engine and batteries. Everything else takes a second seat.

For example they removed the ultrasonic parking sensors. They removed the radar. In the next revision, they removed the stalks in favor of buttons on the steering wheel to control the blinkers.

The car is still expensive, but that’s down to in part batteries and the tech still being somewhat pricey, and in part just profit (contrast to e.g. Ford selling their cars at a loss).

[grey_earthling]

I suppose it depends on whether their more important goal is to provide the best possible service to their customers, or to make the most possible profit.

[RichieAHB]

I guess the question would be, if indeed these suggestions would solve those problems, how much does this cost (I genuinely have no idea!) and how much do I want to spend on this versus putting up a webpage to direct people too.

I want to shave off every last ms of latency in the services I own but at the end of the day at some point it’s good enough (and best for the business) just to manage expectations.

[jowea]

Don't you think customers want the audio feedback that everything is working fine?

[annoyingnoob]

The brake pedal does not have to make noise for me to know the brakes are working. The pads do not have to clunk. There does not need to be a thunk to the contacts opening on the battery when I park for me to know the car is parked. There is a difference between convenience acknowledgements and mechanical parts being clunky, they are all put together here.

Kind of shows where Tesla put its focus, and that there is work to do on future models. People used to higher end cars tend to notice and maybe not like the extra clunky bits, everything should just work smoothly and quietly.

[rootusrootus]

> People used to higher end cars tend to notice and maybe not like the extra clunky bits, everything should just work smoothly and quietly

That's kind of funny. Higher end cars are where you most commonly find fixed caliper brakes, and we are 100% used to the little noises they make. What's unusual here is Tesla choosing fixed calipers for an appliance car. So now we have people used to driving Priuses being exposed to mechanical sounds they're not familiar with.

That and electric cars are so quiet that you're going to hear things that are drowned out by an engine on other cars.