[jshintaku]

I think the cultural shift of younger religious folks towards tolerance and liberalism is more a testament to the values of humans changing religion to serve their needs as opposed to a divine creator dictating aprior moral tenants that never change. I think the US is going through more of a cultural shift brought on by the 1960/70s than a fundamental belief/disbelief in creation/evolution.

Does anyone else find it curious that Atheists who disavow organized beliefs end up codifying their own belief system into organizations such as the "insert atheist group here" which act as defacto church for nonbelievers. I am still waiting for Nietzsche's superman to deliver a new morality for the end of the Christian epoch. I guess I will have to wait a while for that to happen...

[iamdave]

Does anyone else find it curious that Atheists who disavow organized beliefs end up codifying their own belief system into organizations such as the "insert atheist group here"

No, because atheists don't disavow belief systems, just one that requires you accept a belief in a higher being/God character. I consistently see this thought pattern and it makes me wish people went into a deeper inquiry of atheism than by just jumping on the popular rejectionist stance. Atheists are not nihilists.

[jshintaku]

Look that is fine. But part of the article states that there is no basis for morality outside of a higher power. If there is no moral authority higher than humans then on what grounds do you begin to build a belief system. It will just degenerate into one man's opinion against another which is the foundation of the master/slave morality. Or do you believe in some apriori rationality that preceded the universe that man has unique capabilities to discover. That might lead you into the domain of a higher power or some form of deism. Your thoughts?

[iamdave]

If there is no moral authority higher than humans then on what grounds do you begin to build a belief system.

Genuine concern and consideration for another human being? And I disagree heavily with the idea that different opinions lays any sort of a setup for slavery, people disagree all the time; it's a side effect of humanity in a world that's rapidly starting to see cultural integrations on a level never before thought-of.

I've always made the statement that I am an atheist until proven otherwise; don't confuse that with agnosticism, it means I do not see sufficient proof (or reason for that matter) to believe in a deity of which man should worship and this is a stance that I wont change until sufficient proof presents itself.

[jshintaku]

Fair enough I personally do not care what you believe in, if it is the tooth fairy or ganesh or yawheh or nothing at all.

One of the points the article was making was that people naturally distrust atheists due to the fact they cannot derive a morality based on humans alone not necessarily whether or not they believe in a diety. Which is why they often say I don't care what you believe in just believe in something higher than yourself. You are just stating a belief system i.e. I am a secular humanist not where this belief derived from i.e from rationality we derive our universal moral standards of concern and consideration for other humans. Or some form of utilitarianism that suggests that concern and consideration are in our best interests as a whole society.

In reality cultural integration is a bit of an illusion as hegemony rules the law of the land in most cases. Travel to Syria or North Korea right now and you will find that power is the morality people usually follow.

To believe that we are all self-rational actors heading towards some grand path of enlightenment and cultural integration in some far off utopia wonderland of cooperation and mutual self-benefit is to ignore the more animalistic and competitive bit of our nature.