[brnt]

Excellent spacing: no useless wide margins. Stylish icons that can blend in with various themes, which are clear and easily distinguishable. Font: most distro's actually default to Noto, not KDEs own. But you know what: this you can change, KDE didn't remove any and all options for customisation after all.

You can pry Plasma out my cold, dead hands. Gnome, Macos, and Windows: now that's amateur hour.

[seba_dos1]

To be honest, there are many places in the "refreshed" Breeze look'n'feel and the Kirigami suite of apps in general that could really use some margins. It doesn't need a lot of padding, just a pixel here and a pixel there - not to make it less dense, but to make it look cleaner and consistent. To my eye, screenshots from the blog post look worse in this regard than Plasma 5.

[nmstoker]

It'll need finishing touches but they've got plenty of time for that before the February 2024 launch

[brabel]

I use KDE and MacOS on different laptops. Even though I like KDE , I find that compared to MacOS, KDE is the one that comes out a bit amateurish... the attention to detail in the MacOS UI is just amazing. Am I missing something?? How is KDE better (it really feels much more raw to me, but being on Linux I don't really expect much more)?

[GuestHNUser]

I think it comes down to preference. I definitely don't think KDE is amateur, but it certainly lacks the fine polish Apple has the money to pay for.

That said, I find MacOS frustrating at times because basic things can feel like a pain. Switching between several windows of the same application isn't a simple Alt-Tab; the green button enters full screen mode (KDE/Windows F11 Full Screen is equivalent) instead of leaving just the menu bars and application bar on screen; tiling windows isn't as simple as ramming the application against the border you want to expand to. These are simple things I do often in other OS's that have tedious menu workflows in MacOS. I still like a lot of MacOS though.

[michaelmrose]

Ramming against edges doesn't work as well in a multiple monitor arrangement. I forget which environment had this as a default and in what era but one of the smarter defaults I've seen is super(windows key) + keypad numbers. For instance 1: Bottom left quarter, 4: left half, 5: maximize

[onetom]

The built-in Cmd-` (backtick) cycles through the windows of the currently selected app.

I find it better than Context.app, which i did buy and used on a few machines for a few years.

it's like navigating within a sparse table.

columns are the apps, chosen by cmd-tab.

rows are the windows of an app, chosen with cmd-` .

[fragmede]

Contexts.app to fix alt-tab

[GuestHNUser]

Thanks for this! Shame it isn't built in functionality.

[MarcusE1W]

I guess MacOS is more polished than KDE. Probably more polished than anything. A few billions here and there help. Given that KDE is an open source community project it’s quite good.

[amlib]

In terms of look & feel, sure Mac OS wins over all other options, but in terms of functionality... its very debatable.

[skinkestek]

> the attention to detail in the MacOS UI is just amazing.

Please feel free to answer these questions (I think I already know the answer so this is to illustrate a point, but I will also be happy to learn a better way):

1. How do you cut and paste something on a Mac using the keyboard?

2. How do you cut a file in one folder and paste it into another in Finder using the keyboard?

3. How are you supposed to know the answer to 2. except by learning it by discussing with Mac users?

4. I haven't tested recently but it used to be that there was no single consistent way to get to the start or end of a line while selecting the text in between. CMD-shift-arrow left/right worked most places, but not everywhere. Ctrl + a/e always worked but couldn't be used to select text, only to move the cursor.

PS: I already asked for a Mac as my next machine at work. But as someone who uses and have used almost all major desktops (Gnome 2, KDE 3, 4 and 5, Windows 95 - 10, several iterations of Mac OS X) for significant time, I do feel the "attention to detail" argument for Mac is a bit overblown.

PPS: I planning to get a Mac because it has good hardware, is silent, fast and because I want to try it again after a few years. Also I have migrates my whole family to Apple phones since last I used Mac at work.

[Wowfunhappy]

1. By pressing cmd+x and cmd+v

2. You don't.

I realize that's not a very satisfying answer, but it's quite obviously a conscious UX choice, and IMO not a bad one. The problem is, where does the file go in between the time you cut and you paste? If you accidentally copy something else to your clipboard, do you loose the entire file? Does the file appear in the Trash or is it deleted perminently?

You can use cmd+c and then cmd+alt+v to copy a file to your clipboard and then move it to a different directory, but moving is distinct from cutting in that it's a synchronous operation. There is no in between point where your file is lost in the ether.

3. Assuming we're referring to "how do you move a file with the keyboard", you open the "edit" menu in Finder's global menu bar, then hold down "alt", at which point "paste" will change to "move item here".

I agree "hold down option" is not particularly discoverable. However, it's a standard across all of macOS for enabling alternative options. For example, holding down alt will also change "Minimize" to "Minimize All", and "Quit" to "Quit and Keep Windows" (or "Quit and don't keep Windows" depending on your default preference). Once you know this basic idea, it's consistent.

4. To my knowledge this works in all apps that use Carbon/Cocoa. If apps reimplement these views and disregard Apple's design guidelines, what is Apple supposed to do?

P.S. I think modern macOS is a poorly thought out mess but I love how it was a decade ago (up to OS X 10.9).

[skinkestek]

Late, but thanks.

I am waiting for a Mac as my next machine and the bit about alt in the menu should help quite a bit.

I am stil a bit annoyed from last time I used Mac a decade ago and all the things I couldn't figure out without extensive web searches or asking coworkers but I have still figured out it is time to try it again :-)

[sbuk]

The cmd+x/c/v keyboard shortcuts have been around much longer than the ctrl+x/c/v equivalents - copied by Microsoft in Windows 3.0; it was all CUA previous to that.

1. So to cut in applications (or anywhere anything is selectable other than Finder), it's cmd+x, as it has been since the early '80s; likewise, paste is cmd+v

2. In Finder, you'd use cmd+c to copy the file, cmd+v to paste a copy and cmd+opt+v to move the file. This was introduced, I think, in Lion (OS X 10.9).

3. Erm, using the menu bar to begin with? Reading the built-in help? Searching the internet? How do you learn it in Windows and/or any other $desktop or $wm?

4. *Emacs keybindings work in most places in macOS, and they have since the first beta of OS X.

Edit: *most...

[hotnfresh]

Cutting stuff in word processors or content areas, and moving files, are two different operations that behave the same approximately nowhere, and it’s not obvious that they should share the same commands. Digging back into the distant past when I first encountered this on Win 95 (I don’t think I knew about it on 3.1?) it was indeed confusing, though of course now it seems OK, because I got used to it.

The example of whether to use the same command for ready-a-file-to-perhaps-move-but-leave-it-otherwise as for definitely-remove-this-thing-now-and-maybe-put-it-somewhere-else is more a matter of taste than one or the other representing better attention to detail.

[arein3]

Agree. Plasma is another league.

[tsss]

The margins and paddings are objectively terrible. It is not a matter of taste. There is no coherent design here, nothing aligns, there is no visual hierarchy and often it doesn't even show more information than GNOME despite looking so much worse.

[smoldesu]

> often it doesn't even show more information than GNOME despite looking so much worse

Yeah, even as a GTK developer I'm gonna throw a yellow flag here. I've got both Qt and GTK apps that I really love and daily-drive, but none of my GTK3, GTK4 or Libadwaita apps even remotely approach the information density of a Qt app. There's nothing wrong with that; simplicity is nice for a lot of software. But programs like Cutter, Okteta or even music apps like Eliza cannot be built with the GNOME HIG. I'd even argue that certain GNOME apps like Meld, GIMP and Glade/Cambalache suffer from relying on the GNOME HIG too much.