[jiggawatts]

One side is trying to minimise civilian causalities, and is failing to completely achieve that.

The other side is trying to maximise civilian causalities, and is failing to completely achieve that.

I'll let you choose which you think has the moral high ground. Use the up vote button if you think minimisation is good, and down vote if you think maximisation is good.

[asddubs]

This logic only works if in your mind hamas = palestine

[orionsbelt]

You can only say that America was the morally superior party in WW2 if in your mind Nazis = Germany.

At that time, for purposes of the war, that was true, as the Nazis controlled Germany, just like Hamas now controls Gaza. That’s not to say innocent people aren’t sadly dying, but that’s the case in any war.

[mathieuh]

By the same token then you must agree that all Israelis are responsible for the horrific conditions that have prevailed in Gaza for decades, as well as the settler violence in the west bank, and apartheid.

Which is obviously not true. To say otherwise and treat Israelis or Jews as a monolithic block is one of the classic anti-semitic tropes. So why is it different when it's the Palestinians?

[orionsbelt]

I did not say Palestinians were a monolithic block or that civilians deserve to die. I am saying that if you want to analyze which side of a war that you support, it does kind of reduce down to the governments in power (or the non-state actor you are fighting). Whether you believe the US-Afghan war was just, or the US-Vietnam war, or the Russian-Ukraine war, or US vs Germany in WW2, or Israel vs Gaza, reduces down to what you believe about the respective governments and their actions at that time, not based on the average man on the street and does not require one to assume that all citizens support their government or anything really about the average citizen.

[orwin]

What's remarkable are polls that show Gazaoui's support of Hamas. Each time it goes bellow 30%, somehow Israel kill some people (90% triggered by Hamas attacks, but last time it was march and protests, which muddy the narrative, especially when a nurse get sniped), and Hamas get over 60% support.

And what's funny is that Hamas is the richest in the area. Hamas received more money in the Gaza strip, directly from the Qatar and under the supervision of the Israeli army than all NGO working in both Palestines. They still managed to have less popular support than Fatah. With 30 millions a month.

[asddubs]

well, the case has been made many times by historians that e.g. the english/american army went too far during the dresden bombings. So even when dealing with the literal nazis, things are not actually morally black and white in terms of unnecessary force of war against civillians. And palestine certainly isn't nazi germany, I think that's a bad faith comparison.

[hackeraccount]

Got my upvote.

I'd describe it as Hamas trying to get around the IDF so they can kill or kidnap old people, women and children. The IDF is trying to get around old people, women and children so the they can kill Hamas.

[hypeit]

> One side is trying to minimise civilian causalities

Israel has been ethnically cleansing the Palestinians since 1948. They most definitely are not minimizing civilian casualties. They're maximizing them within the parameters that their US backing will allow.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakba