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by neonsunset 958 days ago
I wonder if the bank can be sued for this. That's how random bank managers get found in a river, due to policies like these impacting the innocent.
4 comments

I got a random call from Wells Fargo fraud department and I refused to give them my information. Escalated and the supervisor also pretended to not understand my concern. In fact, they placed a stupid hold. I went to a bank and the bank manager has to call them back and basically beg these people to remove my holds.

These people in the fraud department don't even deserve to get found in a river.

Why didn't you politely suggest to call Wells Fargo' central phone number and have the switch board transfer you to him?

Seems pretty much a no brainer to me.

It should be standard for all banks that if they have a fraud issue, they call you and tell you to call the number on the back of your card, and press 6 or something.

The fraud departments we have are so indistinguishable from actual phishing it’s amazing. They even send you a two factor code and have you read it to them! The text says they’ll never ask for it via phone! Embarrassing.

Worse, as a customer, it is almost impossible to reach a specific person at a bank over the phone.

The branch manager who called had to authenticate himself over the phone (at least he was the one who placed the call) and waited on hold for over twenty minutes and even then he didn't talk to a specific person iirc.

The strange thing is the supervisor was clearly on a power trip. They made me waste hours of my life chasing this nonsense.

I'm surprised we haven't heard more lawsuits about this in notoriously litigious America. I find it hard to believe that "we can ruin you at any time" is a sustainably fair contract term.
In order to sue anyone, you need money. To have money, you need a bank account. Therefore, if the bank takes your account, you can’t sue the bank.
I've had surprisingly decent luck with bankruptcy attorneys being willing to do small favors like unfucking these types of disputes (or at least telling you the right incantation and process to do it yourself) for free.

(Maybe it has to do with being used to dealing with clients that literally have no money.)

Find a lawyer who's willing to split the judgement 50/50. They only get paid once they win.
That only covers the incentive for the lawyer for one isolated case. But since such a lawyer will probably take many such cases (and often against the same banks), we must examine the incentives of such a lawyer more closely. The incentive of such a lawyer is to keep taking such cases, which means it is actually in the lawyer’s interest to deliberately lose some amount of such cases, in order to keep it profitable for the bank to keep debanking customers, thereby ensuring that the lawyer has enough business.
That implies the lawyers act in cahoots to try to influence this much greater body of people/power, over and against their immediate interests. It also implies they're fully crooked. It seems like an extraordinary claim (well, the former).
Lawyers aren't limited to isolated cases. Class actions exist for this exact reason and regularly lead to hundred million dollar+ payouts from banks and other large defendants for harm done to large groups of people.
Yeah, but they’ve never done it to someone who knows someone with money?
Then they fix it and make it good.

Which can be why it can be worthwhile to file suit in small claims court or even pro se.

Because then you’re in their legal department which often at least responds.

Or you get to foreclose on the local branch.

https://abcnews.go.com/Business/bank-america-florida-foreclo...

They will say you agreed to the terms they can close the account for whatever reason, and that receiving the balance within a week is quick enough. I doubt the courts would say otherwise. Lawyers probably won't take this case.

This is a situation where the Invisible Hand of libertarianism was supposed to manifest and gently nudge people to banks with more favorable terms in such numbers that no bank is able to do this and stay profitable.

Ah yes the classic "I'm completely innocent so I murdered this bank manager."
OTOH I do hope a bank is allowed to go full stop on the brakes if needed. I had my CC blocked 4 times because of fraud detection. All done by the CC company and it never cost me anything but inconvenience.

If the bank would be liable, we all suffer. How much will banks charge if we would be both secured from fraud risks and indemnified from account closure damages? I would think 1% of your cashflow would not be unreasonable.

Banks are almost never liable for fraudulent CC charges. The merchant picks up the tab just about every time.
Yes been there, still am actually.

Also as a merchant I like a pro-active attitude of the bank to deal with fraud. But, more on-topic, bank accounts are definitely more stable than CCs. But they are not immune for seizures and fraud detection.