[omscs99]

I really don’t get why all of the fanfare and hand wavey attempts at outreach are necessary here. You have a well defined problem: high rates of property crime and drug use. How to solve it? Maybe try what they did in El Salvador, since that’ll actually accomplish something

The impression that I get from this article is that the city has too many bullshitters in it to actually solve concrete problems: the same problem of a company with way too much management

[pengaru]

> You have a well defined problem: high rates of property crime and drug use

Did we read the same article?

Here I thought TFA said the rates of property crime and drug use aren't exceptionally high, and relative to the distant past, actually quite low. But that against a backdrop of an empty downtown thanks to being all tech workers who are now remote, all you see is the ~normal urban blight, so it stands out in terms of visibility.

[omscs99]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities...

SF has one of the highest measures of property crime in the country. Article was mainly referring to violent crime. Don’t have any drug stats off the top of my head

[huytersd]

That’s the dilemma. Being progressive means being empathetic and a pacifist. Hauling people off the street into jail or other institutions against their will doesn’t play well with the voters. Until there is a tipping point and it does hopefully.

[hardware2win]

People dont see that some things just do not work?

[huytersd]

Well I’m a centrist so I hope people get there eventually. You need a good balance of empathy and decisive action. I think one of the flaws in the progressive mindset is that care and love can solve most issues which it most certainly can’t. That and pushing evidenceless delusions like the trans issue are the only flaws with the left right now. The right on the other hand is a hateful, regressive, conspiratorial pit of snakes with no real plan other than being against any sort of egalitarianism.

[fubnle]

> That and pushing evidenceless delusions like the trans issue are the only flaws with the left right now.

The reason they push this is because there's a particularly nasty streak of misogyny on the left, where they'll completely disregard any negative impact on women in favor of whatever benefits men.

So like the trans issue is mostly about men (who want to be women, or claim that at least) demanding and gaining access to women's spaces. Then there's the policy of trying to legitimize sex work, which basically just harms women for the sexual benefit of men. Also there's the whole issue of uncritical support for Islam, despite it being the most horribly misogynistic religion out there.

For those of us leftists who aren't misogynists, it's a real uphill battle having to deal with these assholes, especially when they try to claim that their beliefs are 'progressive' despite being anything but that, and that anyone who disagrees is doing so because of 'hate'. It's very frustrating.

[pauldenton]

Sort of like Feminists looking at how women are treated in Muslim majority countries in the Middle East, how they are treated in Israel, and then square the circle of who deserves sympathy and who doesn't. Sort of like people who claim to be women's advocates and enact policies that make women afraid to go out after dark.

[amanaplanacanal]

What did they do in El Salvador?

[omscs99]

https://apnews.com/article/el-salvador-nayib-bukele-gangs-60...

How does this relate? There they actually enforced the laws and threw violators in prison. A similar strategy could be employed with drug dealers, property crime, etc in SF

[jowea]

From what I understand El Salvador went beyond "enforcing the laws" as we'd understand in a peacetime liberal democracy and instead jumped straight to borderline martial law and arbitrary arrests.

[amanaplanacanal]

So I read the article. I have no doubt that some people would love to suspend constitutional rights and use the military to start rounding up anybody they don’t like, but that doesn’t feel like the kind of thing we do in the US.

[Rebelgecko]

Suspended due process and rounded up suspected gang members/men with tattoos until they tripled their incarceration rate