[danmostudco]

Tim Urban has a similar post on this called “The Tail End”, noting that by the time we get to adulthood we often have used up the vast majority of time spent with loved ones - particularly with parents and siblings.

https://waitbutwhy.com/2015/12/the-tail-end.html

My brother and I read this and were touched by it; we lived on opposite coasts and since we were kids always loved hanging out with one another. The idea that in our current arrangement we had already depleted MOST of our time together was a bitter pill to swallow.

For years we batted around the idea of living closer to each other. One day we just pulled the trigger and did it. It was enormously inconvenient, took a ton of logistical planning for our respective families, jobs and so on; but we ended up with houses within walking distance of one another and went from seeing each other and our immediate families maybe 10 days a year to 300+. We have accepted going forward it may limit our career options relative to when we lived in top tier American cities but the happiness we gained in the process is more than worth it.

I’m still not 100% sure the experiment will work out, but making the adjustment to live closer to family has substantially increased my mental health and emotional well-being. If you have close friendships and have ever talked about this seriously, I’d encourage you to consider what you might be gaining or losing in your current setup. It’s not for everyone but worth exploring!

[philipkglass]

Due to unrelated and unexpected events, my mother, my sister, my sister's husband, and my wife's sister have all moved to within a few miles of my family within the past year. Previously they were all living in a different state from us. My father is dead, but having the rest of my close family nearby has made me so much happier. I wasn't unhappy before, but this much better yet.

I realize it's not a happiness booster in every circumstance. My wife moved a thousand miles specifically so she never had to suffer her mother again.

[lotsofpulp]

> and my sister's sister

Is this a step or half sister’s step or half sister? Otherwise I cannot make sense of the relationship.

[philipkglass]

That was a mistake. It should have been "my wife's sister." (Now fixed, thanks!)

[hinkley]

When I left college I moved a quarter of the way around the globe. Now I'm a mere 2000 miles away.

[nine_zeros]

I loved your post because I have been living away from my younger brother (and parents) for over 10 years. We meet about once every 2 years.

Every time we meet each other, I feel - great. Just amazing. We just sit and shoot the shit like nothing changed. We care for each other's lives. Just sitting with beers or staying over at each other's place makes me feel belonged. Our spouses love hanging out with us. We all go on trips together. We explore restaurants, we bash our bosses, we make food/snacks for each other. When we are bored, we just go over to the other's home and watch TV with them. And all this is so much more fulfilling than grinding my life away at work.

I keep wondering if this rat race life in a big city is worth more than the pleasure I get by just living close to my brother. Who knows if we will be able to do all this tomorrow.

[j7ake]

This implies your spouses all had to accommodate your side of the family, presumably the spouses parents don’t live near you guys. Seems to unfair.

[dang]

"Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith."

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

[Klonoar]

Uhh, I don’t know if they’re doing that?

This is a very real phenomenon that my wife has noted experiencing as well. It’s a kink in the whole thing that’s worth acknowledging.

[dang]

Of course it's a real phenomenon, but it needs to be brought up without jumping to negative conclusions about the person one is talking to.

Fortunately nine_zeros gave a nice answer and clarification, but often what happens is that the original commenter feels smacked by the mean interpretation, hits back twice as hard, and we end up with an unfortunate flamewar.

This dynamic is in fact one of the main ways we get flamewars, and HN has that guideline to remind us all to consciously avoid it.

[nine_zeros]

Interesting you bring this up because spouses families don't live nearby either. I would certainly consider my spouse's requirements before we move. That said, spouse and I talk a lot about this and we both seem to miss our times with my brother+spouse because they are of our generation. It just makes us all friendly to each other.

[HeckFeck]

I like this idea.

I am far from most of my friends and live in a city for work reasons. There are more activities and everything is a lot more accessible. Definitely more promise in the air. That said, I am living alone and feel it. It's not healthy.

I do want to be nearer friends and (some) family but ironically I think there are fewer relationship opportunities back in the sticks, plus there are attitudes and people in my home town I really don't miss.

I agree with your conclusion - but when younger and single it is difficult to know exactly what to do. Being single being a big problem, and the day to day work from home isolation the other.

[MrFantastic]

My experience is that in a big city you can meet people that better fit into your "tribe", the downside is that they leave town for the higher pay job after about 4 years.

The only solution is to always be adding new friends, at least that the theory. The implementation is tougher.

[Kerrick]

My wife and I moved to a town of 3,000 in a county of 17,000 during the pandemic. We almost left to go back to a bigger city because we struggled to find “our tribe” — nerds. But just in the last month, we found so many people that we’ve now got three weekly D&D groups running!

[granshaw]

Would just like to say kudos for pulling the very complicated trigger on this

This is exactly the kind of thing where 99% of people would like to do but revert to not doing cause the benefits are hard to justify in “traditional” ways (ie financial, career, etc)

Again, kudos!

EDIT: hoping remote work sticks around and makes this much easier going forward

[cmarschner]

I don‘t get it. The two of you now live closer together, but what about your spouses? What about the friends of your kids?

[edgarvaldes]

It depends. If (big if) previously both were far from their family, now one of them is not. Net positive.

We live very close to my in-laws, and there are lots of benefits from that, even if my parent and brothers live far away. But some months ago my brother moved close to my home and now we see each other every weekend, we both have small children that now have the time to play together and form new bonds. It's really great.

My friends are now in different cities or distant neighborhoods, we make plans every now and then, but it is really complex to maintain closeness when physical distance gets in the way.

[abathur]

If everyone they are close to also moved to where this guy and his brother live--and so on--they could have quite the 1 easy trick to found a new megacity.

[dpig_]

Here's the plan: you and 5 people closest to you move to the same area. Then each of those 5 people moves 5 of their closest people to the same area. Repeat ~13x and we can all finally be together.

[kshacker]

Unicity? Because this will be the only city in the world :)

Or not "the City", but "THE city". I am failing to come up with more ideas, maybe we need help from some crack marketing teams

[jkaptur]

We'll just call it "NYC" ;)

[bqmjjx0kac]

New New York?

[kshacker]

So if a mega-city had a billion people. Maybe that's too much, let's say a 100 million people. Let us say this may be possible this century with some innovations in our habitat. So with a 100 million people in this mega-city, how many people can actually live close to each other? Even if you go 3-dimensions (connected skyscrapers), not sure this model will bring people close. Will it?

[basisword]

I’m curious about this too. My partner and I are both from different cities and live in a third city. We have friends and family in the original two cities and friends in the third city. There’s no way to make it work for both of us, and in fact the neutral third city is probably the most fair option despite being far from the best for either of us.

[addaon]

The implicit definition of "fair" as "equal suffering" is always a bit concerning to me.

[basisword]

I get your point but the compromise isn’t “suffering”. We’re perfectly happy in the third city. It’s the moving to the original cities that could cause one persons suffering for another maximisation of their happiness.

[malauxyeux]

> The implicit definition of "fair" as "equal suffering" is always a bit concerning to me.

For family peace, it may be the best thing. My personal anecdote:

I'm from city A. My spouse is from city B. We lived in city C. Our parents were fine with that.

My mother-in-law developed a rare disease. She had no children nearby. Now we live in city B, close to her.

In city A, despite having two of my siblings nearby, my parents absolutely resented our move. They were quite hostile at some point.

That sent my spouse to therapy and there's been no contact between them since. I'm fully on my spouse's side, especially given what my parents said and did.

But the move has taken a real toll.

[coffeebeqn]

Life gets complicated. We’re in a similar situation - family and friends are mostly in cities A and B (in different countries nonetheless). We lived in a compromise/neutral city C until we needed help with the kids and it’s impossible to choose where to go for the long term.

[tuukkah]

One solution is to spend all holidays (as opposed to half of them) at the other city.

[e-master]

We pulled a similar move last year - moved back to Europe from North America after living there for 10+ years. It was a very expensive and risky move, and just like you, I’m also unsure if it will work out great in the long term, but I can tell you I feel great, I am finally in the same time zone as my brother and parents, they can visit pretty much any time, and heck even when my in-laws are in town, and I see them having breakfast with the kids on a Sunday morning, I feel like my life is finally complete.

[basisword]

Curious about the kids. I know kids will generally make friends wherever they go, especially when young, but my closest friends have been with me since I started school. 30 years later we’re still very close despite being a bit further apart. I think any significant move after approx age 13 and I wouldn’t have been able to develop those relationships starting somewhere new.

[e-master]

Kids were 7 and 2 when we moved. Probably the biggest factor in timing the move was their age - I assumed that if we didn’t move then, then we won’t ever do it, as the children would grow older and it would make reintegration really difficult.

One year on they are doing well, even learned a new language! And of course they do enjoy and always look forward to the frequent visits of friends and relatives.

[basisword]

Thanks for the response. Sounds like the ideal age!

[YeBanKo]

Why do feel uncertainly about it’s working out?

[Willish42]

I remember reading this when it came out, but couldn't remember the name and was too scared to type "articles about imminent death and our limited time with loved ones" into a search bar.

I've since lost my parents in my 20s, significantly earlier than expected, but found this weirdly comforting on a second read realizing that most of our quality time had indeed been in the first two decades of my life, regardless of what happened. It definitely makes me think about working to stay close / become closer with loved ones I have left.

Thanks for sharing this. Life's short and I admire your effort to live closer with your brother. Congrats on your "experiment" :)

[aftergibson]

I wish I could somehow evaluate what you're suggesting and understand if the outcome would be worth the effort. It would be SO, SO, SO much effort. I feel good being nearer my family but would that sour if I spent more time than the occasional holiday? Would the support my family might provide be worth the effort of selling our home, changing jobs, changing so how much of our lives work?

Sometimes I long for it but the effort makes it... unjustifiable.

[aprdm]

Very nice! I've thought about something similar. Of course that a challenge is when you marry someone from yet-another nationality. Our plan right now is to try to get key members of the family that want to be together to where we're at even if we help them financially to migrate/move, since we have very good financial situation and the people we're targetting are mostly empty nesters or work in similar field.

[SoftTalker]

Weird. I see my brother rarely, like once or twice a year, though we live less than two hours apart. It always seems like it is a big disruption or effort to have to get together. When we do, we don't have much to talk about. After it's over, I feel completely exhausted.

[toomuchtodo]

I think it’s relationship dependent. My brother is my favorite person, my “forever friend,” and seeing him always fills my emotional cup.

[sargun]

Why did you both move to non-top tier cities? Wouldn't both living in a top-tier city make sense?

[lazide]

Probably expense and lack of options - housing a single family is already expensive (and often difficult to find), two right next to each other?

Nearly impossible, and definitely prohibitively expensive in any top tier city. Zuck got a lot of pushback and significant difficulty when buying a couple of adjacent lots in Palo Alto.

[coldtea]

For most regular foks "tier" is a budget consideration. And of course usually roots (e.g. being from an area) also plays a big role in their personal "tier" ranking of a city.

[bovermyer]

Why would you want to live in a "top-tier" city?

[coffeebeqn]

They usually come with top tier amenities. I still miss the nature in/near Seattle almost every day. The job market obviously. Food, “going out” etc

[jwestbury]

There's nature all over. You can leave somewhere that's not Seattle but still in the PNW for substantially less money.

My point here is that what matters to a given person is pretty subjective, and, personally, I'd never live in Seattle again if I could help it -- and this is from someone who grew up just 90 miles north in Bellingham. (I'd live in Bellingham again.)

[SoftTalker]

The point of TFA is that you just need to be together with friends, i.e. having dinner or hanging out at each other's houses most likely. You don't need a bunch of amenities.

We seem to be doing life backward: We live alone and expend effort to gather together, as if that’s the healthy baseline

[midoridensha]

It's easier to make new friends in a top-tier city, especially if you're the kind of person who likes those amenities.

The alternative is staying in some backwater place just because one of your friends is there, and you have absolutely nothing to do there except hang out with that friend, while being constantly frustrated with all the other aspects of life in that place.

[Kerrick]

Did you read the article?

[sargun]

My opinion of lower tier cities is that they don’t have a lot of infrastructure (See: public transit, decent internet, etc…), lack certain kinds of development (bars, coffee shops, restaurants that accommodate diets), and they tend to lack diversity.

But this is anec-data, with n=1

[M5x7wI3CmbEem10]

why separate houses instead of one large home?