[ryzvonusef]

Incorrect. We have reports from NASA employees who were there to monitor performance, and they talked to Ashlee Vance (1st biography author) and the other guy (Walter? the guy who wrote the second one)

there are also youtube videos of NASA employees discussing these things as part of their report on the Commercial setup.

So we do have 3rd party evidence. Not all of it make him look nice, but it does mention him, which proves his presence (or meddling, however you want to look at it) in the thick of things.

[camgunz]

Yeah, they're all beholden in some way to the success of SpaceX or access for their books.

I'm not a Musk basher, I mean I do think he has behavior problems on X and runs constant pump and dumps in crypto, but I don't think he's an idiot or incompetent or what have you. I think Tesla and SpaceX are incredible achievements. All I'm saying is that there are a lot of people who are like, "and it was all Musk, this proves it", which to me feels like an impossible claim to prove. Don't thousands of people work at SpaceX? Isn't it possible they're better at engineering, or had better luck?

[ryzvonusef]

I am talking about Musk vs Bezos, and how each one's leadership affects their respective organisation's performance.

Ceteris Paribus, given two billionaires, both with the ability to hire the thousands of excellent employees you mention, why does one succeed while the other doesn't?

The excellent employees at both organisations cancel out and we left with the two billionaire leaders and hence why we talk about them and not the employees.

[camgunz]

> Ceteris Paribus

There's no such thing as ceteris paribus when it comes to organizations where thousands of people work, doing insanely complex work. There's literally way too many variables.