[maverick2007]

> America had asked Taiwan to manufacture biological weapons at a lab run by the island’s defence ministry, the report claimed.

This reminds me a lot of the (presumably Russian disinformation) story that flitted around American conservative spheres early in the Ukraine war saying that the US gov was setting up bio weapon labs at the border with Russia and that's why the Russian invasion was justified. Funny how the exact same propaganda can be shared between conflicts to good effect presumably.

[macintux]

It seemed to flow the other way: had Russia believed that Ukraine was preparing bioweapons, or wanted to use that excuse, Putin would have absolutely used that in his speeches justifying the invasion.

Instead, American right-wing conspiracy theorists seized on the idea, and then Russian media started talking about it.

[zoom6628]

The volume of Chinese disinformation inside China about Ukraine from Feb 2022 thru dec 2022 was amazing. Bio weapons, assassination plots, secret missiles - pick your favourite conspiracy theory and it was out there.

The CCP UnitedFront don't seem to realise the damage they are doing to their own political image.

And for fellow HN readers no matter what you read about China always bear in mind that politics comes first. It is more important than lives, morals, history, families, science, economics. Everything is subservient to politics, everything. Not saying is good or bad - it is just the CCP "way".

[seanmcdirmid]

The CCP doesn’t really care what people outside China think about it. It comes off as crass because they plays well at home, and they are immune to public opinion anywhere else.

[keepamovin]

I don't think it's about "politics" it's about power and the rejuvenation of the Chinese nation. It is about what they say it's about it. This is just the way they are going about it.

[lenkite]

The Pentagon themselves admitted that they helped setup 46 biolabs in Ukraine

https://morningstaronline.co.uk/article/w/us-asked-explain-a...

Robert Kennedy Jr also confirmed this. Not surprised - this is the same crap that occurred in Wuhan Institute of Virology. Since U.S. laws do not permit this stuff, the U.S. does bio weapons research outside the nation.

[jamesaurichs]

There's going to be a lot of Russian and Chinese interference in American politics in 2024 for sure

[shashurup]

The fact that this always surpises americans doesn't stop to amaze me. American politcs to some extent affects literally everybody on the planet. But only 300M of them are allowed to vote directly. I consider this situation unjust :)

[libraryatnight]

It's nasty out there already. Not looking forward to this.

[threeseed]

The worst part is that X/Twitter is deliberately not trying to help this cycle.

They pulled out of the EU Code of Practice around disinformation back in May and they have been warned as recently as yesterday that the platform was the worst of all of the social networks at allowing Russian disinformation.

And I am sure everyone who used it has seen the massive uptick in bots and other coordinated activity.

[nradov]

Fake news. I haven't seen any uptick in bots or coordinated activity. You might be following the wrong sort of accounts.

[threeseed]

There are countless articles like this:

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2023/sep/09/x-twitter...

[nradov]

I don't believe that article is accurate. It's more like some guy's biased opinion than a serious quantitative analysis.

[PawgerZ]

You might be following the wrong set of accounts

[the_doctah]

We must censor this dangerous disinformation at once! Surely we also need to establish federal oversight commissions to determine what is or is not disinformation, we can't let citizens sort this out for themselves!

[vuln]

We can repeat the 2020 election the “most safe and secure” election ever. Funny how Russia and China sat that one out huh? Guess they’d let the other team win one.

[threeseed]

You seem to be under the mistaken impression that if Russia/China get involved they are guaranteed to decide the outcome of the election. That is absolutely not the case.

There are hundreds of factors that will ultimately decide who wins on the day.

[FormerBandmate]

Neither Russia or China has ever interfered with vote totals. No one has ever claimed that

[peyton]

My understanding is in some states the laws are written with a Catch-22: you need evidence of hacking to kick off an investigation. So I wouldn’t be that confident.

If I were China I’d probably go with a hardware supply chain attack. These machines can sit around for years.

I think DARPA’s SSITH program is a step in the right direction. At the very least, I’d feel a lot better with bug bounties on publicly available demonstrators from all manufacturers.

[zdw]

Well, someone did claim this during the 2020 cycle, but in a quite bizarre and totally unsubstantiated way: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/may/06/arizona-repu...

[autoexec]

Why do you think they didn't try to interfere in the 2020 election?

[unclebucknasty]

The safe and secure claim was largely around the conduct of the election itself, whereas US adversaries largely deployed disinfo and propaganda tactics to interfere in the election.

So, not sure they sat it out as much as the U.S. was a little better prepared. For instance, social media platforms did a better job of not being completely owned as fire hoses for propaganda and disinfo.

Of course, some then complained that this constituted "censorship" by the platforms.

[vuln]

> For instance, social media platforms did a better job of not being completely owned as fire hoses for propaganda and disinfo.

Better job by not cashing the adversaries checks?

https://techcrunch.com/2017/11/01/russian-facebook-ad-spend/...

> Of course, some then complained that this constituted "censorship" by the platforms.

Ah you mean the government going hunting and finding accounts that violated the ever changing ToS which was heavily influenced by the USG?

[unclebucknasty]

Yes and yes.

Safe to say that $46K ad spend was a drop in the bucket versus their overall effort, but sure, Facebook not accepting those rubles in 2020 counts as a small example.

I have no problem with the U.S. government working with American communications platforms to prevent adversarial propaganda, disinformation and disruption of US elections. These are foreign governments engaged in psyops against American citizens. Falls pretty squarely (and obviously) within government purview to defend against it.

[the_doctah]

The US government didn't stop there though. They used their influence to censor US citizens' tweets. That's censorship, and that's what happens when you give the government this power. Put censorship in quotes all you like, you support it.

[the_doctah]

>Of course, some then complained that this constituted "censorship" by the platforms.

Literally, by definition, and extending well beyond just election topics.

[arp242]

"Most safe and secure" referred to the counting of the votes, in response Trump's claims.

"Interference" refers to China/Russia state-sponsored targetted propaganda on social media and the like.

Was it really the "most safe and secure" and is "interference" an accurate way to describe these type of activities? Well, one could argue about that. But you're mixing up two mostly unrelated things here.

[goodbyesf]

If there is any foreign interference, it would be from britain, canada, israel, etc.

What russian or chinese interference is there when there is 24/7 anti-russian and anti-chinese propaganda?

[FormerBandmate]

Lmfao Rishi Sunsk and Justin Trudeau interfering to protect the rights of the oppressed moose minority, make English one of America’s official languages, and reclaim America for the Crown

I’m not even going to touch the thinly veiled antisemitic smear

[the_doctah]

Just mentioning Isreal is antisemetic now? Do you work for the ADL?

[FormerBandmate]

“Israel controls the US” fuck off lmao

[seventytwo]

Why not all of them? American politics have turned into a global influence game.

[catlover76]

Yes, "propaganda" like information about the Uighur Genocide and facts about Ukrainian civilians fleeing a war-torn country (an undeniable reality irrespective of what Russia's reasons for invading Ukraine were to begin with).

[vuln]

Ukraine has bio labs, funded by the US and operated by Ukraine.

There is also proof and testimony that the US funded the Wuhan lab also.

“They're looking at pathogens that infect humans and animals with an emphasis on those that are endemic to Ukraine, Anthrax, tularemia, tuberculosis, botulism, classic swine fever, Crimean hemorrhagic fever, avian flu, those types of things.”

Just like Wuhan was just checking out some crazy bat strain. I don’t know what “Gain of Function” is.

https://www.defense.gov/News/Transcripts/Transcript/Article/...

https://ua.usembassy.gov/embassy/kyiv/sections-offices/defen...

https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/ukraine-news-russia-war-us-...

[threeseed]

Every country has bio labs.

The insinuation which your sources refute is that they are bio-weapon labs.

[MissingAFew]

I'm sorry, but I really don't see the difference. If they do gain of function to create a virus, that virus can be used as a weapon. You can't separate the two.

[threeseed]

It's the difference between making fertiliser for farming or to build a bomb. Intent matters.

And so if they are creating viruses to better understand how to cure them or prepare responses for dealing with them then that is a good thing. Creating a virus for use in a bio-weapon is a bad thing.

If you don't have bio-labs then you don't have cures so we can't get rid of them entirely.

[MissingAFew]

The amount of engineering required to go from fertilizer to bomb is astronomical. Deploying a virus covertly does not compare in the slightest, that's a disingenuous comparison and you know it.

[threeseed]

"It's a very simple explosive to make," she said. "In fact, for years the IRA {Irish Republican Army} made their bombs this way."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1995/04/21/a...

[__MatrixMan__]

That's like calling ping a DoS tool.

[MissingAFew]

Not really. Development of the virus is the hard part. Ping is straight forward and widely available.

As soon as the virus is developed, it can be used by other departments within the government easily with proper approval, and purposes other than intended.

[bratbag]

Would you care to share the credentials you have that allow you to make a sweeping statement about it being impossible to separate the two?

Because that was a line of propaganda attack, but I'm willing to give you a chance to prove you are qualified and not just mindlessly regurgitating bullshit.

[MissingAFew]

I don't need credentials for common sense. If a virus is developed, it can be easily used improperly when given to the wrong individuals. There are differences, but not enough to make it useless in bioweapons development.