[acdha]

If you arrived at a store and the self-checkout was broken, would you just walk out without paying for your items? Since parking is their business I would never do something which look like stealing without some kind of protection like a recording from someone at the parking when I called. It’s just not worth the risk, otherwise, and you can always park somewhere else where you don’t have to worry.

[Dylan16807]

But there are no items here. The payment is just for time, and if payment isn't working then parking there doesn't cost them anything or cause them any inconvenience.

[acdha]

The good for sale is the parking space. If your vehicle is there without a receipt, using it without paying looks exactly like stealing unless you can show that the property owner allowed it. You can say that the payment system was broken but they’re just going to say that’s an excuse and you just didn’t want to pay, etc. – life is way too short to spend trying to argue things like that versus just going somewhere else. Most of the possible outcome involve you paying considerably more, and the ones which don’t are only cheaper if your time is free.

[Dylan16807]

> The good for sale is the parking space.

Yes, but if you want to compare it to a store then everything in the cart has to be something that will expire in an hour, and the shelves restock whether or not anyone buys them. And there's nobody around that can fix the self-checkout or check you out themselves.

> life is way too short

I'm only here to talk about the analogy you made, not give advice on parking.

[acdha]

None of which changes the fact that you can’t use property which doesn’t belong to you except on the owner’s terms unless there’s some kind of legal right such as the “right to roam” laws in many European countries. There is no right to store your car without paying for it so there’s no gray area here.

[Dylan16807]

There's some gray area because charging on entry would be better, and if you can't pay with actual money that's a real problem.

But I wasn't arguing that, I'm saying it's not like theft.

[acdha]

It’s theft of service, which is definitely not identical to theft of property but I think the analogy is useful because more people understand that a business screwing up doesn’t mean you get their products for free - it means you go somewhere else.

It especially doesn’t mean you have any expectation not to be treated poorly by that business the way you would if you’d complied with your side of the legal agreement. If you’d paid and the business failed to track that payment properly, you’d be getting serious compensation because there would be a legal contract they weren’t honoring.

[PrimeMcFly]

> legal right such as the “right to roam” laws in many European countries.

What are these laws you speak of?

[acdha]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_to_roam

It varies but the general idea is that large landowners have to allow some access for hiking or even camping.

[mvid]

If I walked into a store (meaning it was open, not locked), and the self checkout was broken, and there was no other checkout, no staff member there to collect money or explain how to pay, no jar saying “honor system”, nothing…

Then yea, I would probably walk out with my stuff, knowing I had made a good faith effort to pay.

[acdha]

That’s called stealing, even if you have a rationalization. Until money changes hands, you don’t have a right to someone else’s property and their permission is conditional on payment.

[jagtstronaut]

No one is arguing that they don’t have some right to recourse. Just that booting and charging a ton of money to remove is excessive and an invasion of that person property.

[acdha]

If it was the city, sure, but it’s private property so this feels like complaining that a hotel charges a hefty cancellation fee for no-shows. Yes, it’s eye-watering but short of passing a law capping this I don’t think there are options other than not accepting the terms for use of someone’s private property.