[vinay_ys]

There are two ways for a foreigners to use UPI.

1. If you are from one of G20 countries (for now, will expand to other countries), you can get a prepaid UPI digital wallet at the airport where you land. Just go to the money exchange counters and enquire about this. Airport information desk should help you as well. You don't need an India phone number or India bank account. You can load money into this prepaid wallet via your foreign account or credit card etc. You can use your passport as document for KYC purposes. This is most convenient for short visits. The UPI app issued will be by some forex company. When you leave India, whatever Rupee balance in the app will be refunded to you at the airport. The UPI apps that are most popular with Indians (GPay, PhonePe, PayTM) won't work for this.

2. If you are not from G20 or you are going to be in India for longer than a week, you are likely to get a local phone number. You can get a local prepaid phone number sim at the airport. Then, you can open a bank account in India, tied to that phone number. This account type is called NRO Rupee account – Non Resident Ordinary account. This entire process of opening an NRO account can be done at a bank branch physically or online via your mobile phone. Once you have that bank account, you can use any UPI app like any Indian does.

See:

1. https://www.indiafilings.com/learn/opening-bank-account-indi...

2. https://rbi.org.in/scripts/FAQView.aspx?Id=16

3. https://wise.com/in/blog/upi-international-transfers

[pcthrowaway]

> Just go to the money exchange counters and enquire about this. Airport information desk should help you as well.

> You can get a local prepaid phone number sim at the airport.

Worth noting, do all this before you leave the airport. Assuming you land in Delhi, once you leave the airport there's no way to get back in unless you have flight information to show

This turned into a pretty big problem for me on my first trip to India once I exited the airport with no way to make phone calls, no data, no sense of where anything was, and no rupees (I hadn't exchanged cash yet)

[mattigames]

Yeah no, it seems likethe best idea it's to not go to India at all and avoid all that trouble.

[user3939382]

Riiight.. there’s a problem with money exchange at the airport so the solution is to completely write off an entire subcontinent that’s the home of one of the oldest, richest human cultures.

[pb7]

If it’s a massive burden to do something as simple as pay for goods and services then why not? There is a whole world out there that doesn’t suffer from this problem.

[mavelikara]

Currency notes and credit/debit cards work well.

[mattigames]

Totally, Im sure thats the one and only problem you will face there.

[kryptozinc]

Thanks, we don't want people like you visiting either.

[pb7]

People that want to be able to pay for things during their stay?

[kylehotchkiss]

1) This is never explained to visitors in way that'd get their attention - for example, getting a paper from immigration explaining that's available. Too complicated for now. Maybe once this is available outside the airport it's more viable. Strongly recommend visitors to just take out cash, and carry the amount they need per day + 50% on them. Personally I got by living in India for several years primarily using my American Express card which was accepted at more places than I expected.

2) I wouldn't advise visiting foreigners to get a sim as it requires passing your passport scans to untrustworthy low-level staff at the cell companies. It worries me how they take the passport to a backroom to scan it. I worry they're selling/distributing copies. I realize hotel staff also scan passports but they have reputations to protect and are less likely to. Google Fi/T-mobile roaming or an e-sim via Airolo are much more appropriate and wise choices for short term travelers. If you know somebody in India however, asking for a SIM is totally fine. You can pay to add funds via an international service like Xoom or an American Express card in the Airtel app (which worked for me occasionally)

Protip about American Express cards in India, and the reason I mention it several times. I lost mine last time I was visiting and they sent a new one to my hotel in under 48 hours.

[signal11]

1) is somewhat impractical, because it’s easy to miss the airport desk which does this, and if you miss the opportunity it’s not easy to go back there (Indian airports don’t really allow you back in if you’ve exited)

2) opening an account isn’t practical for tourists, but of course if you’re living in India for even a short while, it’s worth it.

3) Allegedly UPI will work for NRIs / OCIs with foreign phone numbers. In reality most banks haven’t implemented it yet.

tl;dr - “onboarding” onto UPI for short-term visitors is mired in burdensome bureaucracy, and this isn’t a technical issue with UPI, it’s a result of conscious choices by Indian regulators.

The real win would be if you could load up a UPI wallet like you’d do with PayPal. Perhaps initially restricted to people with a valid visa. But regulators haven’t figured that out yet.

[sudshekhar]

Mentioned this on the parent thread, but there are new UPI apps coming out in the market which don't need a bank account.

https://chequpi.com/

For example

[iDon]

I used the Cheq app to make UPI payments via smartphone / QR code, during a holiday in India in July. The app listed locations for completing the Know Your Customer (KYC) process - I did this at Transcorp in Bengaluru. It was worth the effort - it is far more convenient than cash in most cases. Most vendors kept little change, and even restaurants were not keen on receiving a 500R note for a 200R meal. Similarly for museums, art galleries, historic buildings. Auto-rickshaw drivers were happy with cash, and had a reasonable amount of change. I did find a couple of vendors who weren't registered as merchants for UPI, and I could only transfer to merchants, not other users. For travellers I'd suggest setting up UPI beforehand if possible; as mentioned you can do it as you fly in (Thomas Cook offers this service in the airport), but the KYC might take a while.

(Side-tracking from payments to SIMs : ) Several historic buildings had an online-only ticket process with a QR code displayed outside. The user experience of the websites was variable (navigating the forms and input widgets on a phone while standing in the street could be trying), and they required a lot of information, eg. Passport number and sometimes home address, usually including authentication via one time password sent to mobile phone number and possibly they only work for Indian SIMs. Those sites accepted credit card payment, including international. I couldn't count the number of times I gave my phone number, for all sorts of purposes, e.g. when checking in my phone at a temple, I was photographed and gave my number - simple id and method for finding the phone among all the others (when I realised that I switched the phone back on). And for all of these a local phone number is required, so pick up a local SIM at the airport or in the city. I did both, and I think the airport process was quicker. They do require full id for SIMs, including a local address, e.g. a hotel. A 28-day SIM cost only 299 rupees so I got a second one for increased coverage and capacity, because the networks are over-subscribed. (That's less than the daily rate at home). A dual-SIM phone makes that easy, and I could also run with one local SIM and my home SIM to receive SMSs. I was able to download maps and apps while travelling on buses and trains, and use tracking apps - which helped with knowing when a bus was approaching my stop.

[signal11]

This looks really promising, thank you. (And oh, it’s a YC company!)

https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:7094460...

Is there a page which lists others like this?

[sudshekhar]

https://www.npci.org.in/what-we-do/upi/3rd-party-apps

https://www.npci.org.in/what-we-do/upi/ppi-apps

These two links list all the approved UPI apps in the Indian fintech market. As you can see, the ecosystem is vibrant and ever-growing :)

We are the first ones to focus exclusively on serving foreigners and NRIs in India and have issued the most number of international wallets till date.

Fave app and First Rupi(from IDFC) are alternatives you can try if interested.

[signal11]

> We are the first ones to focus exclusively on serving foreigners and NRIs in India and have issued the most number of international wallets till date.

Awesome! I look forward to trying out your app!

[kryptozinc]

Tried the app on two different phones with two different USA numbers. Never received the OTP on either. What if this happens when executing a transaction that requires OTP?

[sudshekhar]

UPI transactions thankfully don't need an OTP for verification. As long as you have internet, your payments should work fine

You'll just have to enter the transaction PIN (which you decide while creating the account).

Sim binding generally fails because the individual is unable to send an sms due to recharge/network issues. Can you raise a ticket with the support team? Someone will quickly get in touch and help you onboard.

[unmole]

I saw a 040 support number and got a bit excited for a minute. But looks like you guys are based Bengaluru.

[sudshekhar]

Our team is based out of Bangalore. But Transcorp, our partner, has branches in 22 cities across India.

People can get themselves verified for the Cheq wallet at any of these locations.

[vinay_ys]

Nice and clean! Congrats!

[vinay_ys]

> 1) is somewhat impractical, because it’s easy to miss the airport desk which does this, and if you miss the opportunity it’s not easy to go back there (Indian airports don’t really allow you back in if you’ve exited)

These money exchange counters are before airport security and accessible without "entering" the airport.

[signal11]

Those (before airport security) don’t perform UPI onboarding for foreign tourists. The usually-solitary shop/desk that does this is present in select airports for international arrivals (not departures) and needs to be used before you leave the secure area. And oh, good luck finding it staffed if your flight arrives outside business hours.

Your meta-point though is “oh there’s a workaround” or “if you go through hoops it’s doable”.

My meta-point is, the whole “do it at specific shops in the airport” is problematic and needlessly limiting.

Why an airport? Why’s it special? Could it be more convenient?

Asking these questions of digital systems (any digital system) is what HN is about. Not defending needless limitations.

[vinay_ys]

hey, I'm just trying to be helpful for visiting foreigners. I don't have any need to defend UPI on HN and moreover UPI needs no defending, its stats speak for itself.

[signal11]

Except the ‘helpful’ steps you mentioned don’t really work. (Another commenter linked to some up and coming apps which are far more promising[1], I’d definitely urge interested folk to look into those.)

> moreover UPI needs no defending, its stats speak for itself.

The law of large numbers applies to UPI like it does to almost everything in India: you’ll get huge numbers which look good on slides.

In reality, UPI is a bit above 10% of India’s cash transaction volume, so yeah, the reality of “UPI is ubiquitous” isn’t quite there yet.

And “UPI needs no defending” is the exact uncritical thinking I expect when there’s any forum discussion of UPI. The thread started with people saying UPI doesn’t work for tourists & short term visitors, which I believe is valid criticism.

There are many other criticisms of UPI, including and especially the governance around it. (On a more optimistic note, all of this is fixable.) But that’s for you to figure out if you’re interested!

[1] https://www.ycombinator.com/launches/JDX-cheq-upi-digital-pa...

[vinay_ys]

What's your basis for saying it doesn't work? Have you actually tried to get a prepaid wallet at the airport counter and it didn't work for you?

Don't make unnecessary personal attacks by saying there's no critical thinking. If there's a specific factual thing that's incorrect in what I wrote above, feel free to point it out with evidence. Don't make unnecessary tall and broad claims about others who you know nothing about.

Btw, I didn't say UPI doesn't need improving. I actually worked on different parts of UPI stack to do exactly that. And if you take the time to look at the number of feature launches that have happened on UPI you will realize how much work to improve it is actually happening every month. Also, if you really leave your biases aside and look at it critically, you might realize that the scale of UPI wasn't a given just because it is India. It takes effort make anything get to that scale and keep growing.

[wtmt]

> This entire process of opening an NRO account can be done at a bank branch physically or online via your mobile phone.

Online method is not possible since banks and other providers insist on providing Aadhaar number and completing OTP authentication for that mode. Aadhaar is a number given for residents, i.e., anyone who has legally resides in the country for more than 182 days. So a foreigner landing in the country isn’t going to be eligible for it until six months have passed.

[kylehotchkiss]

Having been in a situation where I've asked for one of these accounts, the bank asks for FRRO registration paperwork. If you've ever been to a FRRO, you know they won't actually grant those :)

[mavelikara]

Thanks for this information. I am a NRI and I do have a NRO account. Can I use that account for getting a UPI wallet?