| Not sure if you meant to reply on an alt... > See, the difference is in one case a person was beat-up, and there's evidence, their life was possibly in danger, and in what you presented you have a hear-say. A false report. The difference is that one has the potential to cause harm, and the other is actual harm caused. Bad actors harm everyone, rights protect against bad actors from breaking true consensus. In that case, they went a step further than a false report and actually staged the crime as well for "evidence". This is not the only occurrence, but one of the most high profile occurrences to have been caught. > From my perspective I fear for my life. This is what is on the line here. Not my ability to commit hate-crimes, not my ability to spew bigotry. Consensus - actual people - on average are understanding. On the other hand, there's a trigger-happy, outrage-addicted, gun-owning, self-proclaimed-terrorist and outright blood-thirsty minority who is angry because the broader society doesn't accept their bigotry. I am sorry you have personally experienced hatred like this. Even with experience, such fears should not fuel oppression of the world. Many are dying daily from war but personal experiences like this supersede actions against that, why? Please at least see the choice and selection biases in this, fear for your life at minimum invokes an emotional component. If you are unsafe there are likely actions you can take outside of intentionally trying to disrupt the rights of everyone else. Without personal compromise? Maybe not. Much as they want to force their opinions into reality, you want to force yours. > I will repeat, to you, it's some imaginary threat that has the potential to happen 60 steps down the road if you concede that hate-speech is bad for everyone and pushes people to commit atrocities, and to me, it's my life. It is not imaginary, it has happened and will continue to happen as long as there is incentive. Hate crimes against minority groups have lessened over time, but I will agree with you in that fear of such has been amplified. Some selectively amplify group positions to intentionally fuel hatred. This serves in two ways, for profit and distraction. Media could not profit from fear unless victims AND threats exist, thus they intentionally amplify opinions that provoke such threats. We cannot solve the hate problem with censorship and removal of rights. The bad actors do not simply disappear because you no longer allow their thoughts in your reality. You have a right to be you up until violence and they have a right to be them up until violence. Many humans still operate from instinct, maybe the solution to hatred is to teach more to separate instinct and approach reality with logic? That would certainly upset our desire driven sales fueled world of individualization. |
Not at all, I am fairly open about it because I am making a statement. The statement is that there are bad actors in this forum who silence discussions to push a certain narrative. Dang and whoever else moderates this is very much free to ban me, but they haven't.
> I am sorry you have personally experienced hatred like this. Even with experience, such fears should not fuel oppression of the world.
See, I have a desire to live a life just like you, I have siblings, I have a mother, and they love me and I love them. How will they feel when they will have to bury me because some rando decided to murder me?
You see, in this conversation you are putting the blame on me, for what you believe that I am doing - which I am actually not, if you read my comments in this thread I am very much against censorship as long as it doesn't devolve to hate-speech. My desire to live a life in decency will always trump your desire to enable harm - because those are the consequences - by allowing everyone and anyone to say anything they want and amplify that.
That is what you are doing. Instead of asking what the consequences are for hate-speech, how being bombarded with such speech changes your very own view of reality - just as any other interaction does because such is the way the brain behaves - you are more concerned with telling me to suck it up for being afraid for my life.
In your mind you have vilified me and put me in a position I never did myself. You did all that implicitly. Notice that in none of comments did I directly support censorship. What I support is accountability for the consequences of one's actions - that accountability includes stochastic terrorism.
You can't assume that everything and anything you do happens in a vacuum, people are not closed systems, everything we do matters. I wouldn't be in this position if I was allowed to be in this world, just like you are.
> If you are unsafe there are likely actions you can take outside of intentionally trying to disrupt the rights of everyone else
You are literally putting the blame on me for - let me check my notes - potentially getting murdered by a crazy person, and not on the person who pushed the crazy one over the line, gave them a gun, and pointed at me. You are literally blaming me for my inability to be invincible, and for wanting to live a life of the same quality as you are.
Sure, I can go get locked in an apartment - god knows I am already doing that because I am terrified - what more can I do? Do I not deserve the chance to live a regular life?
Why are you not blaming those who put me in this position in the first place? Why aren't you blaming those who actively cause harm and instead blame the victim for dying or getting assaulted, or harassed or worse?
> Maybe not. Much as they want to force their opinions into reality, you want to force yours.
What opinion am I forcing on anyone? That murdering people is bad? That minorities deserve to live regular lives as everyone else?
> Hate crimes against minority groups have lessened over time,
Really because I see the opposite. Minorities are being denied treatment that existed for decades because of fear mongering despite all actual evidence to the contrary. Is this not a hate-crime? Attacks against trans people have skyrocketed, and so have murders [1,2].
Please tell those families that you are okay with their children getting murdered, because a person can't handle not spilling vitriol.
[1] https://abcnews.go.com/US/homicide-rate-trans-people-doubled...
[2] https://time.com/6131444/2021-anti-trans-violence/