| HN Mirror

This can easily be resolved by not buying an Apple phone and buying a phone that still retains a physical SIM slot.

Stop giving companies money for making stupid decisions. It only emboldens them further.

The Samsung Z Flip 5 has this too :( Only 1 real SIM and the rest only eSIM.

However it is a bit more understandable because the flip has very limited space due to the hinge components.

The USA versions of Apple's flagship phones (iPhone 14 and up) have ZERO physical SIM slots. They are dual eSIM only.

Models sold elsewhere in the world retain a single physical SIM slot.

Yes you read that correctly. They made multiple versions and the American one is deliberately crippled.

I'm certain the space regained by removing the SIM slot in a US-only variant has been repurposed for...absolutely nothing.

It defies logic why they would do this, beyond some grand social experiment they can execute with little risk due to cult-like monopoly control of the market.

I refuse to believe that they sold more than 12 of these SIM-less phones.

What?? I had no idea about this. I have not had an iPhone since the 6 so I haven't followed it that closely. I remember they offered eSIM for dualsim, I had no idea they were eSIM only in the US even for primary SIM use. Wow. This will so not work over here.

> I'm certain the space regained by removing the SIM slot in a US-only variant has been repurposed for...absolutely nothing.

Yeah, after all the specs are no different in any other way I guess?

Samsung is doing something similar here though. They leave out the mmWave antennas. On US models you can see the antenna cutouts on their premium models but in Europe there is nothing in that space, just empty.

It's a shame because while mmWave is not a thing here right now I don't buy my phones for just one year.

Specs typically vary slightly with LTE band support but nothing that would drive large mechanical changes. This was a deliberate move, an A/B test of sorts.

Good point on the mmWave support. I wonder if that's where the antenna is located. I don't care about mmWave, nor does anyone I know, so it doesn't even cross my mind.

mmWave is a dying tech. It will suffer the same fate as WiMAX. If this is the trade off (and it shouldn't be), I'll choose the SIM slot every time.

toast0 1034 days ago

> mmWave is a dying tech. It will suffer the same fate as WiMAX. If this is the trade off (and it shouldn't be), I'll choose the SIM slot every time.

I think mmWave has a lot more staying power than WiMAX. WiMAX as deployed was an alternative network to general purpose cell phone networks. As a third alternative to CDMA/GSM and upcoming LTE, it didn't make a lot of sense in the market.

mmWave is deployed as augmentation to a network, mostly to increase capacity at hotspots like stadiums and maybe transit centers. Additionally it provides beneficial marketting, because network providers and handset makers can claim their network/device does huge bandwidth even if it's only true when you're the only person in a stadium.

Given that US iPhone 12 and up support mmWave, and that spectrum management is a challenge at stadiums, it's pretty likely we'll continue to see deployments in that space. Even if mmWave doesn't live up to the marketting, moving half the customers to it frees up traditional spectrum for those customers that don't have it.

Is it going to expand much beyond those situations? Maybe to airports and NYC train stations, but probably not beyond that. Is it ever going to be more than a small fraction of time connected for people other than stadium employees? No. Does that mean it's dying? No, it's just a constrained niche. Should you prefer a phone with or without mmWave? Depends on how often you go into situations with high person density.

https://youtu.be/6CPFYwTOatc?t=304

That is where the antenna is located yes, You can see it in this teardown:

It's a nice 5-element (in 1 direction of course) phased array. There seems to be no room for a second one so if you use mmWave you'll have to make sure not to cover it with your hand. Non foldable ones usually have two for that reason.

Edit: oops you weren't talking about the flip but the iPhone. In that case, no I don't think the mm wave is where the sim slot was but not 100% sure.

gorbypark 1034 days ago

I don't have the time to look, but I saw a YouTube video where someone swapped the dual physical sim daughterboard from a Chinese iPhone into an American one. It fit and it worked. I'm about 80% sure it was a dual eSIM only American model (14), but it's possible it was a single SIM/single eSIM one (13 and below). Anyways, I am pretty sure the space is there and is just unused.

Amazing, just found a video where they add a SIM slot to a US iPhone 14. The space is there and the slot just plugs right in. It required removing some resistors (to reroute the data lines from the eSIM to the slot). They didn't even cut a hole in the chassis for the SIM tray; they inserted the card before closing the lid.

This proves it was purely a marketing move which makes the decision even more insane.

musictubes 1034 days ago

As soon as a critical mass of carriers across the world adopt esim the space will absolutely be used for something else. Apple is forcing the issue, trying to force carriers to adopt it. No other phone company has the leverage that Apple does. They have a lock on the majority of high value customers. A carrier that does not support the latest iPhone will lose customers to one that does. I expect more countries to be esim only for the iPhone 15. I think China will be the big issue, don’t think any carriers there support it. And of course the carriers there aren’t exactly subject to competitive pressures.

As to why Apple is pushing esim I can imagine several reasons. Number 1 is just the space in the phone itself. I also think that Apple would love a world where people didn’t go the carrier stores. More people would buy directly from them and then get pitched all the Apple stuff instead of the carrier’s. Everything from accessories to insurance. I do think the world will much better once carriers are reduced to utilities and I think widespread esim usage would go a long ways towards that.

> They’re very useful. Although it’s sometimes hard to get eSIMs direct from carriers internationally since many only grant them on post-paid contracts.

Exactly, this is a huge problem for me because I don't do post-paid (after one bill with unintended overage charges, I much prefer them just cutting me off until I pay again).

The sim swapping being controlled by the provider (every time you need a new QR and they need to 'grant' it to you) is more restrictive too, and they usually enforce only models they sell directly. It's a real loss of flexibility that we used to have with hardware SIMs.

WallyFunk 1034 days ago

> SIM cards also have their place

They're trying to kill physical SIM cards like they did with CDs. They only have their place insofar as you can say 'I can touch this, and also swap it out with another one' / otherwise 'tangible computing'.

Killing off physical SIMs is like arguing in favor of soldered RAM.

Because that's all eSIMs are you know. They are not software SIMs. They are physical components with the additional capability of being provisioned remotely by the end user with a friendly UI that sometimes works.

Moving physical SIMs (and thus your service) from a damaged, inoperable phone to a new one takes approximately 5 seconds. This cannot be improved upon with eSIM.

That said, eSIMs have their place too, especially in the industrial IoT space. But completely eliminating physical SIMs from consumer handsets is beyond stupid.