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by deadballcretin 1040 days ago
What's the grift here, get as much voluntary biometric data as possible before regulatory pressure shuts the whole thing down?
5 comments

It's a grift^2.

It's simply pretending that language models masquerading as AI are so absurdly powerful that human identity itself is now threatened and requires an additional verification layer to prove that you are actually human. Like the language model product, I think they're purely trading on hype.

I'm not sure what having my retinal scan gets you if you can't actually replicate an eyeball matching that scan.

It's absolutely the case that there will be a need for human verification, in fact it already is a core part of identity verification, it's one reason we have a liveness check.

The rise of LLM and generative image and video absolutely poses threats in the form of criminal impersonation and scams, in terms of maliciously intentioned catfishing, in terms of manipulation of public discourse, and last but not least to the enshittification of online discussion.

Online discussion spam filters have been decent at removing low effort commercial shilling and automated trollposting, but LLM poses a real threat in that regard. If you don't want a 14 year old troll to be able to set an automated script to spam post 50 new convincingly written Reddit posts every hour about how horrible Playstation 7 is and how much better Xbox Series 15 is to /r/Games, then you care about human verification or spam detection that takes into account the new abilities of LLMs.

All that being said Worldcoin doesn't look like the best answer.

Finally a sensible take. The problem that Worldcoin is looking to solve is real. I think the solution they've arrived at is terrible but that's not because I don't believe in the problem.

LLMs are going to shift the orbit of the internet and present a spam-adjacent problem on a scale we haven't seen before. Existing power structures are going to be very suddenly convinced of the need to either prove one's identity, or at a minimum, prove one's humanity and uniqueness.

I have no idea what the solution here is but man I hope it's not a fricken crypto currency and maybe also not exploiting the 3rd world. These seem like they should be low bars but here we are.

The problem is real, but it's not the problem that worldcoin addresses, because they:

- wouldn't need a blockchain or crypto tokens for that.

- but they would need to provide a way for people to authenticate as humans on random website (without reavealing their identities, because GDPR in the EU).

Since they do 1 but not 2, we can positively conclude that Altman take avantage of a real problem as a marketing pitch for his product that isn't in fact aimed at this problem.

I think it's more of a compliance test than anything else. They already have all the facial recog data they would need, or could easily source it.
This just gives them another vector to prove its actually you.

Matching finger print data with facial recog is about as close as you can get to foolproof identity analysis I would think. I know both can be faked, but for a majority of the population, having these two markers would be almost impossible to claim it wasn't you.

This is what government ids are already for. Instead of creating new systems to strip away privacy rights, spend more time enforcing laws and prosecuting identity theft. Tying identity to biometrics makes it involuntary at some point down the road, which is obviously the real intention.
There is no money in setting fires, the money is in selling people help to put them out after you start them.
> I'm not sure what having my retinal scan gets you if you can't actually replicate an eyeball matching that scan.

With a sufficiently large number of samples, the ability to create convincing synthetic retinal images? Though to what end I don't know.

The same thing we do every night, Pinky...
I remember being in awe when I visited Universal Studios a few years back and they casually asked everybody to fingerprint themselves on the way in. Most people did it without even thinking about it. When I told them I was not going to participate, they said "you have to" to which I replied "I most certainly do not." They let me in after that. It almost felt like an IQ test.
This really happens at theme parks now? What the hell?!

[edit] The last time I was at Universal Studios, I was 17. A couple friends and I spent a few hours running around the park in camouflage at around 1am, stoned out of our minds, before being caught and escorted out. They let us go with a warning. Can you imagine what they'd do now?? The 90s were awesome.

I couldn't believe it myself.
They would let you go with a warning unless you were black.
Biometrics / fingerprinting at Universal Studios: https://www.universalstudioshollywood.com/web/en/us/faqs/bio...

  How are biometrics used at Universal Studios Hollywood?

  Biometrics are gathered on a guest’s first visit when using Multi-Day, Annual Pass or Season Pass tickets. On subsequent visits these biometrics are referenced to ensure that it is the same guest using the ticket.
An even more cynical possibility is that it isn't even about the biometric data. If you treat that part as a distraction, the rest of it looks exactly like a typical cryptocurrency "airdrop" pump-and-dump scheme -- give away a bunch of your tokens to build hype and set a (bogus) price target, then start selling the tokens for liquid currency.
The organization behind it is, of course, keeping 10% of the coin for themselves. Tracks very well with your theory.
Where can one find this information? Is it on their website?
Am I the only one who doesn’t think its a grift? I get that we wanna put negative pressure on altman becuase of the hypocrisy of openai, but I kinda would like to participate in world coin if possible. UBI sounds nice and I give up more personal data using any other service so idk, it doesn’t actually bother me tbh
Where is the money going to come for a UBI?

Presumably it would be distributed as Worldcoin airdrops. Either those airdrops will quickly reduce the value of the coin towards zero because nobody’s going to trade real money for WorldHyperInflationCoin…

Or, Sam Altman will somehow create Worldgov too that will fund this brave new Worldcoin UBI. Doesn’t seem terribly likely.

Maybe it’s an AI Underpants Gnome thing where step #2 is “posthuman superintelligence will solve it!”

The grift here is that there is no way in you are ever going to see a cent of that promised UBI. I hope giving away your biometrics was worth that slim hope. I'd personally go for the lottery ticket if I wanted to some have fun with massively improbable odds. I still won't ever see a cent, but at least it's less creepy
We put negative pressure on anybody who tries to build a global database of mankind's iris scans, no matter if it's a government, an agency or a company.
Lots of shitcoins before have handwaved at some UBI solution in the future. World coin has no plans. They have a public roadmap, which is different from a plan. Every shitcoin has a roadmap to build hype and satisfy desires without needing to deliver.
Call it the Universal law:

Any coin used for UBI, will lose value against Bitcoin.

I agree with you. They are clear about what they ask of you and what they give you. I wouldn't accept, but people should be able to accept if they want.
It isn't clear what they give you. You know neither it's worth nor it's usefuless nor it's lifetime.

And I doubt that many people exactly know what they give and what happens to that data or what negative effects it could have if that data is stolen.

Otherwise people wouldn't fall for (crypto) scams.

It's crypto - quite clearly you don't know what its worth is or will be. That's the entire point.
So it isn't clear what the really give, could be the equivalent of OneCoin.
I am still waiting for regulatory pressure to protect my privacy and data. This biometric data will be a gold mine I am sure.