[lfowles]

I've tried preaching philosophy to my toddler but he just doesn't seem to get it for some reason :) Some toys do get "broken" (but easily fixed so they reappear in a week or more), but out of sight means out of mind! He won't even remember it exists as soon as he gets thirsty and wants his drink instead, so effectively there are already zero consequences outside of a minute of anguish. I, on the other hand, do like the option of having toys to distract him while fixing dinner and some are way more effective than most.

[evandale]

I never understand this view, but admittedly I don't have children. I have a cat though. She's the first pet I've ever had in my life.

I got lots of warnings from lots of people. Don't let her out or she'll cry all the time to go out. Keep her away from the door or she'll run out and you won't see her again. It sounded very difficult.

However I didn't follow this advice and let my cat out in my backyard. And I found out that people were right and she does cry to go out all the time.

At the start. So I ignored her. I didn't even tell her to be quiet. I let her whine and cry as much as she wanted. She was 100% fine and had everything she needed except the ability to go outside.

She started to scratch the screen to voice her displeasure. I'm the boss and so she lost screen door privileges. She tried to negotiate but failed horribly because, again, I am the boss. She is a cat. The next weekend she got screen door privileges back and scratched the screen on day 2. She lost them again because I'm the boss and I don't want her to scratch my screen. When she got her screen privileges back again she never scratched the screen again.

The door thing, same. She snuck out once. Then I started locking her in a safe room with everything she needed. It's still her room to this day and she can trash it as much as she wants, just like she could as a kitten. That's the only room she can do that and seems to understand that. She doesn't really come near the door if I'm leaving now, and if she's close she will not try sneaking out.

She just turned two this past month, and while she was a nightmare as a kitten, she is a complete angel now.

I'm not totally perfect and for example I can't keep her off my desk if it's in the sitting position. So I've learned to deal with it. If I don't want her on my desk I need to either keep her out of my office or use it standing. I can't seem to win this battle and I tried everything. I'll say that not buying a kid a new iPad seems like a much easier thing to do.

I'm sure children are a lot different but the "I can't teach children philosophy" excuse sounds pretty weak. I don't understand how children can have that much power over an adult.

[bcrosby95]

> She just turned two this past month, and while she was a nightmare as a kitten, she is a complete angel now.

A story of our young kid.

We had twins when she was 3. And she really liked them. Until they started moving and getting into her stuff. Then she really hated them. So much so that she would go out of her way to hurt them. When going to the bathroom, she would go the long way so she could step on their fingers. When we weren't looking, she would push them over. When one of them knocked over one of her toys, she picked him up and bodyslammed him.

It made life a living hell. We tried everything we could think of. Time outs, losing stuff, whatever. Right afterwards, 10 minutes later, she would be on them again.

Then one day, about 3 months after it started, it just stopped. Like magic. No clue why.

[IanCal]

> I'm sure children are a lot different

They are.

Beating them into submission because you are the boss and they are just a child is not a long term solution.

They are a lot more complex than cats.

> I don't understand how children can have that much power over an adult.

Oh I can easily just lock my son in his room, make him dance to get fed, anything really. It'd be abuse and wouldn't result in him growing into a well rounded child and adult and he'd hate me, but I could force him to behave in basic ways like you're describing.

[evandale]

I didn't beat anything into submission.

I set ground rules and gave her safe ways to be upset. If she misbehaved she lost privileges she enjoys.

I never neglected her if that's what you're trying to get at. That's a pretty low-blow to accuse me of based on what I wrote. Be better.

Obviously locking children in rooms isn't right. How about this, instead of locking kids in a room, you could try making a toy room and locking them OUT if they're misbehaving. Is that inhumane torture? That's basically what I did with my cat.

[IanCal]

"beating into submission" is a phrase that does not mean physically beating.

> I never neglected her if that's what you're trying to get at.

If you did that to a child it would be neglect, that is the point. Children aren't cats.

It is more complex with a child. It's easier when they're a baby, but increasingly more subtle as they get older. Nobody is saying you can't take things away from them or set boundaries, but you're talking about very simple things that may work with very young children but aren't enough as they get older.

"Do as I say because I am the boss" is just not good enough. Maybe you'll get compliance but that's not enough if you want a healthy relationship with your child as they grow.

[evandale]

> If you did that to a child it would be neglect, that is the point. Children aren't cats.

I would never do that to a child. Even if they had a bowl of food and water and a toilet in the room I wouldn't expect them to be able to take care of themselves. That sounds like something a psychopath would do. Stop straw-manning me, it's incredibly rude, and against the rules. You bring down the discourse of this site when you quote 5 words from a paragraph and leave the rest of the context out. Plus you are not even quoting me directly yet you're using quotes. Stop doing that as well please.

> "Do as I say because I am the boss" is just not good enough.

When did I make that argument?

For the record, I don't believe you should tell children that. I don't understand the difficulty in telling them "The iPad broke and you are not getting another one because you can't take care of it properly. Perhaps you'll get a new one at Christmas." when they break their iPad.

That's what I consider being a boss. Saying those words does not seem difficult to me.

[c22]

You brought up your anecdote about your cat in a thread about children and child-rearing. It's absurd to accuse people of straw-manning you just for assuming you meant to draw parallels between children and cats.

[em-bee]

it's not "Do as I say because I am the boss", it is "stop your behavior because it is not appropriate". children need to have boundaries. if those boundaries are crossed there must be consequences. when my kids argue over who gets to use the computer, i take the computer away until they calm down and settle their disagreement.