[mhitza]

> And I think you would find, if you are lucky, that a competent European junior-ish developer would not get out of bed for less than 60k Euros (65k USD), a more senior developer would demand more.

That's a very much extreme statement I think you confabulated. Take this developer median data from back in 2020 https://www.statista.com/statistics/1222324/developers-media... and reanalyze your statement.

And also compared to https://www.reinisfischer.com/average-monthly-salary-europea... where 60k euros a year tends to be above the average monthly salary in many EU countries. And if a junior doesn't get out of bed for less than that, well I have some bad news for them and their expectations.

[KeplerBoy]

Are you actually in Europe?

You won't get qualified devs for much less than 60k around here. Especially since that is the amount of money people expect on their payslips before taxes.

On top of that employers have to pay additional stuff, that won't even make it on the payslip, like parts of the health insurance which are not considered to be parts of the compensation.

Quick Example from Austria:

* Cost to Employer 77k€

* Employee's Taxable Income: 60k€

* Income After Taxes: 40k€

* Childcare and University: 0€

[mhitza]

> Are you actually in Europe?

I'm actually in Europe, and EU, but not Schengen (thank you Austria & Netherland governments for the veto vote).

> You won't get qualified devs for much less than 60k around here.

The ridiculous claim was about juniors that won't even approach the job for less than 60k, and I took that information that I found first with a Google search to illustrate that 60k euros is more than the average salary in most EU countries.

Of course you could share more precise numbers from one of your national institutions that reports this information, but on the website listed the monthly average gross salary stated for Austria is around 4540, which comes to 54480 a year.

I could count on one hand the number of junior developers I've encountered that I would call exceptional, and deserving an average salary right from the get-go.

[KeplerBoy]

I wouldn't worry too much about the average salary. Those numbers usually include people working part time.

And, stating the obvious: Software developers tend to earn above average salaries.