[hkatx]

United states would benefit greatly from approaching antitrust the way EU does it. For folks that complain about the big {pharma, tech, cell, internet, insurance} you can argue that economies of scale tends to benefit consumer, but when companies become near monopolies it gives them enormous pricing power. Parents would know that diaper prices have increased a lot and that because P&G is the only game in town.

[zeroonetwothree]

The US has far more innovation than the EU. It’s likely primarily because of less corporate regulation. What would the modern world be like if we only had EU companies?

[plumarr]

That it's due to the corporate regulation has to be proven.

Being an european, I would say that the first cause is cultural. Innovation for the sack of innovation isn't particurlaly viewed as positive as in the US. In many circle it's even seen as negative. Same thing for entrepreneurship, as there is a good chunk of people that see Businesses, especialy big ones, as an ennemy.

[WhereIsTheTruth]

> Being an european, I would say that the first cause is cultural. Innovation for the sack of innovation isn't particurlaly viewed as positive as in the US. In many circle it's even seen as negative. Same thing for entrepreneurship, as there is a good chunk of people that see Businesses, especialy big ones, as an ennemy.

Don't be revisionist, Europe is a continent full of innovations, both industrial, scientific, and artistic

This negative mindset only appeared recently, and it seems to be spreading, so what has changed? Perhaps WW I/II, the Marshal Plan and propaganda? Looks like it's very well documented

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshall_Plan

The death of European's giants began:

"The Americans insisted that the German coal sales monopoly, the Deutscher Kohlenverkauf (DKV), should lose its monopoly, and that the steel industries should no longer own the coalmines.[12]: 351 It was agreed that the DKV would be broken up into four independent sales agencies."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Coal_and_Steel_Commun...

It's like if Europe asked the US to break Microsoft into multiple small companies because it is too big lol

This is what affected Europe's ability to innovate, loosing its big industries and its ability to form big and global companies, instead was forced to open its market to the US which could expand its giants as they wish..

Oh and this one is interesting too:

"The loan was followed in 1948 by a free grant of $2.3 billion from the Marshall Plan, with no repayment. In exchange, French cinemas would replace the numerical quota with a "screen quota". This meant that French cinemas were required to show French-made films for four weeks out of every thirteen and leave the other nine weeks of every quarter open to free competition, namely from American films.[5]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blum%E2%80%93Byrnes_agreement

https://www.alphavillejournal.com/Issue17/HTML/ReviewEtem.ht...

[layer8]

Teams was based on Skype, which was an Estonian company and product, and also on Parlano MindAlign, originally developed by UBS Group AG, a Swiss company.

[ExoticPearTree]

Skype also sucked big time, so basically the only thing people gained from the MS acquisition was even more pain and misery with the Skype for Business and Lync products.

[bombcar]

Teams is based on Skype for business which is rebranded lync and really has nothing to do with Skype beyond buying the name.

[sofixa]

> The US has far more innovation than the EU

In what areas? Software? Fraud (including anything from crypto shit through Theranos and Juicero)? Maybe automobiles and space, maybe?

In other areas such as aviation, banking, healthcare, music streaming (did you know that practically most music streaming services outside those created by the giants of Apple, Amazon, Google as an offshoot project are European innovations - Spotify, Deezer, Tidal, Qobuz), maybe edtech and biotech, space and transportation, automobiles etc. European companies out innovate American ones.

Innovation for the sake of innovation isn't cherished in the EU, and of course it's harder to be successful in 27 different small markets than it is in one massive one. Regulations playing a part in possible, but do you have any sources to substantiate your claim it's the primary reason?

[ExoticPearTree]

As an european, the US outpaces us in every area.

Whenever something good might happen, the EU tries to regulate it to death.

The latest example being AI: we don't have any AI companies or pioneers, but the EU already started drafting regulation around it. It feels like they want to kill every economic opportunity they can.

[sofixa]

> Whenever something good might happen, the EU tries to regulate it to death

> The latest example being AI: we don't have any AI companies or pioneers, but the EU already started drafting regulation around it. It feels like they want to kill every economic opportunity they can.

You're looking at this one dimensionally. AI isn't just an "economic opportunity", there are actual real world things that can be impacted by it (just ask the striking actors and writers in the US). Why exactly is it a problem for there to be regulations? When Airbnb, Uber, e-scooter companies sprung up "disrupting" with no regulations covering them, they made a mess all around. I'm in favour of proactive over reactive regulations.

Not to mention, there literally is an EU startup in "AI" that got tons of money, so it's not like you can say there's only plans of regulations, there are plans of competing as well.

> As an european, the US outpaces us in every area.

Aeronautics, banking and healthcare are great counterexamples where it's not even close.

[WhereIsTheTruth]

And they changed the law to allow the US to transfer EU's citizens data

https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-signs-off-on-data-transfe...

As if the EU was built to help the US economy and transform the continent into a giant marketplace

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36895441

[jensensbutton]

Given the size of the only companies you were able to list it doesn't seem like innovation for the sake of impact is cherished either.

[sofixa]

I gave one example - music streaming companies because I find it funny practically all of the dedicated ones are from the EU - and you interpret it as something to scoff at? Spotify is literally the biggest music and podcast streaming company, and among the first in the business.

Back Market, Doctolib, Ornikar, HelloFresh, GitPod, N26, Yubikey, Revolut have plenty of impact and innovation as startups.

But maybe market cap is what impact means for you, so okay - Airbus? VW? Stellantis? Alstom? Thales? Safran? Sanofi? Siemens? Robert Bosch? Bayer? Literally among the best in the world in their respective branches. For instance, Airbus is outselling and outengineering and outinnovating and outmarketing and out-everything Boeing. Did you know that apart from them not being criminally negligent with basic safety systems, they're also heavily investing in all sorts of alternatives for the future of aviation? They have projects for battery-electric and hydrogen-powered airplanes, delta-wing designs, and collaborate with engine manufacturers (to be fair, it's a French-American Joint Venture) on innovative engine designs. Meanwhile Boeing's only innovation is NASA giving them a ton of money for them to test a new wing design for them.

Only some big names I could think of in France and Germany (and Spain and Netherlands and UK for Airbus). I really should start a list that I keep up for next time this topic comes up, people regularly underestimate innovation in the EU, or are completely unaware that said innovative company is European.

[epups]

Almost all the big companies you mentioned were founded 50+ years ago. When it comes to tech, yeah you can cite Spotify, but against the US big techs it's kind of cute that this is the EU's calling card. Ornikar? GitPod? Please. For each of those we could list 100, if not 1000 more successful American startups.

It's a cold, hard fact that the US has had much more successful businesses recently, particularly in tech.

[sofixa]

So innovation only counts if it's in tech and is a recently founded company? Agree to disagree on the definition then.

The innovation Airbus is doing is a million times more important (because it can drastically reduce carbon emissions in an area that emits a lot of them and is crucial for a big part of the world) than 99% of US tech startups "reinvention" or "disrupting" common things nobody needs reinventing. Do you count Juicero in your "innovative tech" metrics?

Yeah, hotels sucked in some places, but Airbnb is not a solution but it's whole can of worms aggravating housing shortages.

[nceqs3]

>Back Market, Doctolib, Ornikar, HelloFresh, GitPod, N26, Yubikey, Revolut have plenty of impact and innovation as startups.

lol. I have heard of like two of these and even those are tiny companies.

[andrewfurey2003]

Its still necessary, there has to be a balance between innovation and complete monopoly on tech

[rvz]

Let's hope that the regulators learn from their mistakes after taking bribes [0] from the same tech companies to slow down their monopolistic actions from being scrutinised in recent years. We have given them enough time and they will never change.

So we'll start with Alphabet which in September there is progress to put them on trial over their monopoly in search and ads. [1] [2], Then Microsoft who's dominance is overdue to be broken up after destroying Slack.

Finally, Meta. Which once they reach another billion users with another social network product via Threads without federating is almost certain to be investigated this time.

[0] https://www.reuters.com/technology/google-facebook-microsoft...

[1] https://www.cnbc.com/2020/10/20/doj-antitrust-lawsuit-agains...

[2] https://www.cnbc.com/2023/01/24/doj-files-second-antitrust-l...

[lotsofpulp]

> Parents would know that diaper prices have increased a lot and that because P&G is the only game in town.

Kimberly Clark is a huge diaper manufacturer in the US, they make Huggies and Kirkland diapers.

The market is probably mostly split between P&G and Kimberly Clark though.