[mad_tortoise]

We should not pillory other countries, especially not coming from a First World perspective. However the First World had a head start, through various factors being colonialism and the industrial revolution. Putting the traditional Third World in a lesser position when it comes to ability to compete with First World countries.

The issue is, we cannot deride those who use coal to try to catch up, when that was the fuel that got many First World countries to the position they are in. The First World likes to be high and mighty in these terms, however not very often is it introspective enough to realise that the Third World simply cannot operate in the same way. China and India are in a different spot, however both were distinctly at a disadvantage in progression as a country until late in the 20th century.

All of this ultimately leads to a greater question, how does the planet intend to reduce demand on coal while also allowing countries reliant on it to grow? In Africa, there's various steps that need to be taken. In my opinion international debt cancellation, as debt structures that were put in place by the First World org's were and are predatory, and rely on First World demands to be met. Secondly, the big R world, reparations for colonialism and imperialism should be looked at. While these are predominantly monetary steps, these are the great blockers to progress. It is ingrained suppression of Third World countries that ties in to the fractured history the First world has with the Third. And similar steps should be taken with South American countries as a lot of their issues mirror African issues for similar reasons.

Point being it does matter what the First World does on its own part. As the First World's per capita consumption of energy far outweigh's its Third World counterparts. The effort need's to be increased through financial mechanisms to aid countries that aren't able to wean themselves off of coal dependency. India and China are interesting examples, but neither at their rate of growth have the ability to get off coal. India even less so than China, and there quite clearly isn't a global effort to help countries that are struggling with coal dependency.

[nativecoinc]

Not being a hypocrite is not really that important compared to solving the problem at hand.

You also get into absurd situations like how former colonial powers can’t say that up-and-coming colonial powers can’t develop in that particular way. Some things are just bad to do.

[mad_tortoise]

Of course, I believe the climate crisis is the most important problem in the world. However I don't think former colonial powers have any right to say or rather lecture former colonised countries on their obligations, when the colonial powers haven't properly addressed why the colonised countries are in the state they are in. It is also not just at the feet of former colonial powers, the US wasn't a coloniser but did have a tremendous imperial influence throughout the Third World that has stymied progress and thrown Third World countries into a debt trap that they cannot escape (unfortunately China is doing the same these days). This needs to be addressed too.

And until these issues are addressed, the Third World countries who rely so heavily on coal power cannot get off their reliance on it. It will need a global effort led and on the financial burden of the First World, to support the economies of the countries that are using coal to progress. I believe that is the only way we will turn this issue around, otherwise we are just putting a plaster on a stab wound.

Let's not forget Africa and India's growth over the next century is going to eclipse anything we've ever seen before, and without the correct structures in place we will have no chance of combatting this issue.

[nativecoinc]

> Of course, I believe the climate crisis is the most important problem in the world. However I don't think former colonial powers have any right to say or rather lecture former colonised countries on their obligations, when the colonial powers haven't properly addressed why the colonised countries are in the state they are in.

Words and lectures are irrelevant. Only what the First World can do—including influencing the Third World—matters.

> It is also not just at the feet of former colonial powers, the US wasn't a coloniser but did have a tremendous imperial influence throughout the Third World that has stymied progress and thrown Third World countries into a debt trap that they cannot escape (unfortunately China is doing the same these days). This needs to be addressed too.

I guess “stymied progress” is a way of phrasing it.

And what about the Philippines?

[ZeroGravitas]

Kind of a tangent to your main point but Africa doesn't have much coal, and what it has is mostly in South Africa. As a result their transition should be a bit easier.

[bottled_poe]

> I don't think former colonial powers have any right to say or rather lecture former colonised countries on their obligations..

Unfortunately, nature doesn’t care. What’s fair and unfair is irrelevant. These political excuses are a weak justification for BAU.

[melling]

@dang Quick question. How does this story have 38 upvotes , over 50 comments, and not appear in the top 150 stories on HN?

Is it getting flagged down for some reason?

Seems like an important topic that we need to address.

[Gibbon1]

> we cannot deride those who use coal to try to catch up,

We can however point out that people (especially the poor) in those countries are the ones that'll take climate change full force.