[TexanFeller]

I've worked on traditional cattle ranches with open pasture grazing and am roughly aware of what goes on in the factory farms, feed lots, and dairies that were nearby us. Even traditional ranching has certain brutal aspects to it - dehorning and castration are quite painful even with some effort to minimize pain. But the cows suffer less and for a much shorter time than they would at the hands of a natural predator or their other natural ends such as starvation or exposure. I'm not sure what lead has to do with anything.

[yadingus]

The "suffering equation" is to me the weirdest rationalization.

Whether that is true or not, I think it's more important to keep in mind that it's not our place to judge that, unless you hold some biblical belief that animals were put on earth by god to feed us. The cost of freedom must be taken into account too, it's a value not only relevant to humans.

A lot of the suffering in the world comes about because humans have an inflated sense of moral agency over things outside their scope. We have the tools to affect many beings and many lands, but not the wisdom to see the immediate and long term effects. We just see our current behavior, and then employ all kinds of mental gymnastics in order to perpetuate it. We'll go to great trouble to change the world, just so we don't have to admit we need to change our selves.

[TexanFeller]

> The cost of freedom must be taken into account too, it's a value not only relevant to humans.

In my mind sentience is a spectrum and cows aren't very far along it. I spent my childhood working with cows and I can tell you they're dumb as rocks. They have little memory of the past and zero concept of the future. They were always happy to see us and had no concept of their freedom being restricted or that we would eventually auction them and their offspring to the slaughterhouse. People that are worried about cow rights have usually never spent time with them. Goats are further down the spectrum, but still dumb. Certain other cattle like pigs are said to be quite intelligent so there's more of an argument to be made.

[afsgknoinionio]

>People that are worried about cow rights have usually never spent time with them.

Well, dub? People who spend a lot of time with cows are presumably working in the meat or dairy industries. It's rare for a person to believe their own actions are wrong.

[000ooo000]

There are human beings further down the intellgience spectrum than these animals, so this line of reasoning doesn't get very far as justification for their exploitation and killing.

[bobboies]

Traditional cattle ranches are much different than factory farms. Cattle that grazes on open pastures are generally much healthier. An animals quality of life determines how healthy they are—and subsequently, how healthy they are to eat.

Factory farms are where most people get their meat in America.

Imagine how healthy you’d be if all you ate was oatmeal, a hormone cocktail (to make you grow faster), and some vitamins. Then imagine living in a cage with dozens of other people, having scarcely three feet between you and the next person. Would you be healthy?

That’s what people are eating.

[000ooo000]

>But the cows suffer less

Is the alternative breeding millions of cows and pitting them against their natural predators, or leaving them to starve? If not, then I'm not sure what relevance the comparison has.