[ecdavis]

I think this comment oversimplifies gambling addiction. Yes, chasing losses is a behaviour common to many gamblers, and yes, winning money provides an incentive to gamble in the first place, but many (most?) gambling addicts have different motivations.

Here are some quotes from _Addiction by Design_, by Natasha Dow Shüll -- a book I highly recommend if you're interested in this subject:

> Julie explains: "If it's a moderate day - win, lose, win, lose - you keep the same pace. But if you win big, it can prevent you from staying in the zone." [...] "You're not playing for money," says Julie, "you're playing for credit -- credit so you can sit there longer, which is the goal. It's not about winning, it's about continuing to play."

> [Pete says:] After sitting at the machine for fourteen hours, so tired I can barely keep my eyes open, no money in my pocket, no gas in my car, and no groceries at home, I still can't leave because I have four hundred credits in the machine. So I sit there for another hour until it's all gone, praying for me to lose: "Please God take this money so I can get up and go home." You might ask, "Why didn't you hit the cash out button?" That never occurred to me -- that was not an option.

I don't think the importance of the monetary payout is particularly clear-cut. The payin is what does the financial damage, by moving money out of the player's control. The incentives and reinforcement are what get the player hooked -- but perhaps those don't have to be financial? I won't discount the importance of the payout entirely; maybe it's critical to get hooked in the first place? But I also wouldn't be surprised if gambling addiction can arise in games which don't provide to ability to cash out.

[somenameforme]

If you reject the necessity of a monetary payout then near to all modern tech becomes gambling. Maximizing "engagement" has always been little more than a euphemism for addiction after all. And social media "engagement" is certainly destroying far more lives than gambling, not only in raw numbers but also as a percent of its users.

So many people claim to be unhappy or at least dissatisfied with social media, yet continue to spend hours per day on it, chasing those highly exploitative little dopamine rushes that drive addiction to it. And of course it regularly gets much darker than just wasting vast amounts of time. Even in a casino the overwhelming majority of people will at least tell you they're having fun. And in video games the overwhelming majority of people will not only be having fun with what they're playing, but also spending next to nothing on it.

[srcreigh]

Maybe that’s why china bans Facebook, limits TikTok usage to 1h per day, and video games to 1 hour per day on weekends and public holidays only.

What addictive software system isn’t banned in china? maybe software development..

[eternityforest]

I really do think software development can be at least somewhat similar to video game addiction. So many personal projects are just useless obsessions. I'm not sure why people don't treat them more like video games and only spend the amount of time you would be comfortable spending in counter strike.

I guess pursuit of simplicity, and supposed educational benefits (which are real, but these personal projects are different enough from commercial software, and often don't really push the boundaries of anyone's skill or involve any new technologies likely to be used outside of a hobby) make it seems worth the 10+ hours a day people can spend?

[levesque]

To be fair, the people quoted in the book don't seem to be having that much fun. But yes, most of modern tech seems to be exploiting the same mechanism, generating addiction.

[themitigating]

"credit -- credit so you can sit there longer, which is the goal. It's not about winning, it's about continuing to play.""

My emotions are muted and it's horrible. Because of this I felt the most excitement in my life when I was gambling. When I lost it was disappointing, when I won I was happy, but when I was waiting to find out I had a visceral reaction similar to being a child waking up on Christmas morning. They were the most intense feelings I've ever experienced and when you go through life feeling very little it's wonderful.

I wonder now if that kind of excitement other people experience elsewhere in life, like when meeting a friend or riding a rollar coaster. If that's true I'm just fucked.

[pcthrowaway]

I used to play poker pretty seriously (not necessarily super well, but let's say break-even on the game itself over about 2 years going to a casino at least once a week)

The moments between going all-in and before the showdown (where the pot is decided) were pretty exciting, but not nearly as exciting as outdoor rock climbing

[themitigating]

Physical activity doesn't make me feel good. At best running on a treadmill for around 30mins gives me energy that feels good physically but doesn't really translate to mentally.

I've tried intense hikes and other activities but it really doesn't do much. I have ADHD and on and off depression. Maybe borderline personality disorder as well. I did try anti depressants once but it only removed whatever little emotions I experienced, not worth it.

[pcthrowaway]

Rock climbing is great for people with ADHD (speaking from personal experience) because you're mentally engaged, all-brain-cells-on-deck, gears turning at full capacity in what can feel in the moment like a life or death situation.

But it's actually a clever brain hack; if you're following best practices regarding safety, and choosing routes which are also safe, there's very little danger

[beefield]

Out of curiosity, have you tried "extreme" sports like skydiving or downhill biking? I have a theory that people into extreme sports have often muted emotions compared to ordinary folks.

[lobocinza]

Mountain biking is generally not extreme but can be super joyful (in retrospective maybe only the downhill segments are joyful).

[lobocinza]

Treadmills are boring. Try strength training. Can do it at any gym, low barrier to entry, good for health and provide more neurostimulation.