[rcarr]

What an overcomplicated load of baloney. If you become aware that you’re scared, stressed or overactive and distracted, do some 4-4-4-4 box method breathing until your mind calms down. The end. Just saved you having to remember this stupid acronym and this “ransom decision” nonsense. What’s more, it’s a proven technique that’s used by military personnel in life or death scenarios, as opposed to whoever this person is who’s claiming to have “10,000 learning cycles” of self discipline, whatever the fuck that means.

[dang]

Can you please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stick to the site guidelines when posting here? You broke quite a few of them here.

"Please don't fulminate."

"Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith."

"Please don't post shallow dismissals, especially of other people's work. A good critical comment teaches us something."

"When disagreeing, please reply to the argument instead of calling names. 'That is idiotic; 1 + 1 is 2, not 3' can be shortened to '1 + 1 is 2, not 3."

It's fine to disagree but please do so thoughtfully and without the vitriol or putdowns.

[rcarr]

Can I have edit permissions restored so I can rewrite it to be less inflammatory? I was harsh because I've wasted a lot of my time on this stuff which I'd rather help others avoid - I went into this in a reply to the author in the comment thread for context.

For what it's worth I would reword it as:

If you become aware that you’re scared, stressed or overactive and distracted, do some 4-4-4-4 box method breathing until your mind calms down. I believe this a better method than the one suggested in this article - it is a proven technique that’s used by military personnel in life or death scenarios. This post strikes me as a convoluted system that is going to be difficult to remember in the heat of the moment and therefore difficult to implement successfully. I am also sceptical about the effectiveness of the “ransom decision”. “10,000 learning cycles” of self discipline is also vague and doesn’t really map to the original 10,000 hours concept. I personally believe you’re far better off sticking to simple solutions for productivity and self discipline.

[dang]

Sure! I've reopened the edit window so you can change it how you want.

(and I hear you about the conversation downthread - I didn't see that earlier)

[rcarr]

On second thought can we leave it up, as then anyone who sees the thread has a good example of an inflammatory comment and how to rewrite it to be more in keeping with the spirit of the site? If not then I will go back and change it.

[SnowdustDev]

Just a note that I found this thread valuable :), offering to keep that comment was a good idea.

[rcarr]

Glad it helped. I think it's generally better to admit and take responsibility for your mistakes rather than trying to pretend they never happened otherwise we struggle to grow.

[dang]

Sure, no problem.

[ChanningAllen]

Author here. I am a fan of box breathing, along with several other "proven" breathing techniques.

Not sure what the downside is of experimenting with new techniques to add to one's tool set? Keep in mind that I'm just a guy on the internet who discovered something that worked and decided to share it with others in the hope that they'd also find it helpful.

[rcarr]

The only downside is wasted time, and possibly wasted money if people get hooked into the productivity rabbit hole and end up spending ridiculous amounts of money on apps, books, gadgets and whatever else trying to be more productive.

I say this as someone who was probably like you once. I took a Big 5 personality test in my mid twenties that said that I had a low conscientiousness score which meant that I was pretty much destined to be a low earner as a high conscientiousness score is the trait most linked to high earners and achievement. What followed was probably a period of about seven years where I also tried all the meditation techniques whilst relentlessly trying to optimise my productivity, work and life, resulting in an inevitable burn out.

Following that, I like many others on here, have ended up just using a few text files for organisation and I am probably more organised than I have ever been. I use one file with day headings with tasks underneath that I plan to do on each day. And then I have other files for projects that just contain lists of tasks relating to that project. When I'm ready to work on one of those tasks I move them into the main file. It's that simple. I am happier and more focussed than I was using any of these other systems.

I make my text files in Obsidian, other people use org mode, some people use Google/Apple notes and others use Vim and plain text files. Even though it lead me to where I am now, I still look back and cringe at all the wasted time and energy I spent investigating and using all these other systems. I've done comments on reddit and elsewhere outlining my own overly convoluted systems that I might go back and delete in case someone stumbles on them and they lead people down the wrong path. KISS, Keep It Simple Stupid, really is the best strategy. And I suspect that also applies to regaining control with breathing which is why 4-4-4-4 works so well.

I remember the enthusiasm and confidence I felt when I thought I'd found some great method and how much I wanted to share it so don't let me stop you if that's what you want to do. But I'd wager in five years you'll have forgotten all about this, you'll be using something far simpler, and you will probably also cringe if you do remember it or come across an article like this from someone else.

[ChanningAllen]

> I say this as someone who was probably like you once. … I also tried all the meditation techniques whilst relentlessly trying to optimise my productivity, work and life, resulting in an inevitable burn out. … Following that, I have ended up just using a few text files for organisation and I am probably more organised than I have ever been.

I applaud your journey. (Genuinely!) But isn't it possible that even though you and I have followed a similar path re productivity systems, the path has suited me better than it has suited you? And not because either of us is a better or worse person than the other, but because we're simply different?

Here's the way I see it [0]: Society is a pack of cards with multiple suits, and there's an ace in each suit. If someone else's ace card doesn't work for you, it doesn't necessarily mean they're full of sh*t; it might just mean they belong to a different suit.

[0] https://www.indiehackers.com/post/chasing-other-peoples-ace-...

[rcarr]

I agree with you that everyone is different and there's more than one path up the mountain so if you find this useful then keep using it. I would say that it's a well explored mountain and that the main routes tend to have emerged for a reason but thousands of mountaineers carve their own routes up mountains every year and there is something to be said for that as it brings its own knowledge.

[0cf8612b2e1e]

Never heard of it, but according to random website [0].

> Box breathing—also known as square breathing and 4-4-4-4 breathing—is a breathwork first popularized by Navy SEALs who used it to quickly sharpen concentration and enhance alertness. It requires inhaling for four counts, holding your breath for four counts, exhaling for four counts, and then holding your breath again for four counts.

[0] https://www.mindbodygreen.com/articles/box-breathing

[rcarr]

For anyone interested, I first came across it in Unbeatable Mind by Mark Divine. If I remember right it also goes into the OODA loop and other mental models, tips and tricks plus some info on physical fitness and flexibility. Good book.

[anyoneamous]

It's quite relaxing, but I get the impression that's because your mind is filled with "Count to 4"/"Blarg my nose is stuffy"/"Jesus why is holding my breath for 4 seconds so hard"/"Wow I actually have to push to empty my lungs in 4 seconds"/etc

[euazOn]

Haha, you have forever ruined box breathing for me, from now on I will only think about those things :)

[barbs]

This is about exercising self-discipline, not calming yourself down?

[rcarr]

> that you’re scared, stressed or overactive and distracted,

I believe that would come under overactive and distracted considering the author states "Maybe you're doomscrolling a social feed instead of working on that important project."

[catsarebetter]

Yeah it does seem a little bit more complex than necessary. Simple methods, simple life

[imron]

> it’s a proven technique that’s used by military personnel in life or death scenarios,

What if it’s not life and death and you just want to resist the temptation to take a cookie from the cookie jar. 4-4-4-4 seems a bit overkill for that.

[rcarr]

What, more so than holding yourself hostage by holding your breath? The aim of 4-4-4-4 is to get into the habit of calming the mind down so that the desire passes with the subsequent realisation that all desires pass. This seems like it's relying on willpower which is only going to take you so far.

[username135]

10000 of anything is just key wording to allude to being a 'master' at something since that number was arbitrarily used to determine who or who is not an expert.

[rcarr]

It was referring to hours of practice so 10,000 hours made you a master but what the fuck constitutes 10,000 learning cycles of self discipline? Has he spent 10,000 hours sat in meditation like a monk? I highly doubt it. It’s nonsense the author is using to try and give himself some credibility.

He also links to a blog post describing his “somewhat hardcore work routine” and how adhd is his “superpower”. It’s a hard pass from me.

[username135]

Ya, I was referring to the book Outliers. When ever I here someone mention 10k of anything related to mastery or skill I assume they're parroting that book