[mdtusz]

In the PNW these are absolutely everywhere and for good reason - they're exactly what most people need when they need a truck bed for hauling capacity. Plus, many are 4/AWD and have relatively high clearance so they're great adventure wagons for forest roads and getting out there.

If a manufacturer made a truck similar (or slightly larger - not much room for people 6' and over in them) available for the market here, I'm sure they'd sell well. Seems like the biggest impediment is the safety laws here though and American insistence on having the biggest vehicle on the road.

[sellmesoap]

Another advantage for off-road kei trucks is they are narrow, allowing you to drive around obstacles that you would need a lot of clearance (big tires/lift kits.) A lot of trails in the PNW get overgrown and a narrow vehicle that weighs less causes less trail erosion and can squeeze past obstacles rather then going over them. My understanding is that in Japan insurance cost is based on your odometer, and there are strict inspection and maintenance requirements (mandatory replacement of suspension after so many KMs) so most of these vehicles are lightly used before export. I notice saber rattling by the auto industry here in B.C. trying to limit imports, I see this as a regulatory capture move, I'm not impressed!

[yomlica8]

Trucks used to be cheap utility vehicles with fairly basic mechanics, but they've turned in giant luxury land yachts with a price to match. They aren't even a good fit for a lot of kinds of work anymore.

If we allow motorcycles to drive on roads I don't see why we couldn't have some sort of limited road use exemption for these simple vehicles. At the very least you should be able to just buy them for farm use.

[damascus]

You can drive whatever you want on private property. It's the 'going on the road' part that adds on the government oversight.

[rootusrootus]

In Oregon, Kei cars are specifically illegal, they cannot be titled or registered. Other states are following a similar path so definitely make sure you can title it before you buy it.

[nabilhat]

> In Oregon, Kei cars are specifically illegal...

That's what the OR DMV suggests, but this is their own made-up policy, not law. They didn't even bother putting it in writing until relatively recently. So far they've failed to put their actively enforced kei policy into Oregon law [0]. They simply decided to stonewall a subset of 80's and 90's Japanese cars.

It's not about safety, or emissions, or top speed, or size. Titling and registering underpowered microcars from not-Japan is quick and painless. Pre-80's kei is fine too. Multiple pre-'80's Subaru 360 and Mazda R360 literally-kei cars sport current Oregon license plates, also relatively more common eventually-kei pre-'80's examples like Honda N600/Z600/S600. Also kit cars, street rods, from-scratch homebuilt cars, and literal golf carts the DMV is explicitly happy to title and register [1]. All they're unilaterally regulating is the taint of one specific Japanese initiative that they don't like.

Just for fun, kei trucks now get a vaguely worded exception. So if you feel like a gamble it could be possible to buy one and legally drive it to your mailbox or tow behind your RV. Or you'll draw an uncooperative DMV employee, and depending on where you live, zoning or your HOA might force you to destroy it if they catch you keeping it quietly locked up in your garage. The DMV can create an illegal situation that you are liable for by refusing to title a car, even though the car itself isn't illegal by law.

Oregon DMV's policies have long been inconsistent, arbitrary, capricious, and some other things besides.

[0] https://www.oregonlegislature.gov/bills_laws/ors/ors801.html

[1] https://www.oregon.gov/ODOT/DMV/Pages/vehicle/vehicletypes.a...

[KRAKRISMOTT]

Any bored billionaires here or NGOs willing to finance a suit?

[fragmede]

Bill Gates already did, for his Porsche 959, which was made illegal by the 1988 Imported Vehicle Safety Compliance Act. His lobbying resulted in the 1999 Show or Display law, which allows such vehicles, though they are limited to 2,500 miles per year.

[danuker]

> Show or Display law

Dammit. Even with his money he barely managed to scratch his own itch.

[tinus_hn]

These people follow different rules. Famously, Steve Jobs used a rule that allows a car to be driven without a license plate if it is newer than 6 months, and he just got a new one every 6 months to never have license plates.

[FuriouslyAdrift]

These would all be covered by the federal 25 year rule… https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grey_import_vehicle

[kotaKat]

Register a Montana-based LLC and shove the kei into registration in Montana. If rich folks can do it to evade taxes on their supercars, we can do it to evade registration requirements...

[greggsy]

Is that for safety or market protection reasons?

[chiph]

Not an expert on Oregonian law, but my theory is that Oregon's motor vehicle law references the federal NHTSA regulations, and Kei vehicles laughably don't meet them (exterior lighting, crash performance, theft resistance, emissions, and so on).

An owner might be able to use it as an off-road vehicle only (no title, no tag, with maybe only comprehensive insurance), but that's not the point of buying one for a lot of owners.

[matthavener]

NHTSA has a 25-year rule that allows a car old than 25 years to be imported without those considerations. You can definitely import them legally in Texas. I find it funny that we disallow these new smaller trucks, but we allow folks to jack up the suspension on an already large American truck 24 inches, install a grille guard, and it's still considered legal.

[agloe_dreams]

In most places all of this is still illegal, but then again, is the person with this mindset who you want to pull over today?

[tehwebguy]

They are also huge offenders! At least in Los Angeles.

A pet project of @FilmThePoliceLA is filming & posting videos of cops’ personal vehicles with illegal modifications. He calls them out directly if he sees them, they never have any reasonable response.

[causality0]

That's such bullshit when motorcycles are allowed on the road.

[KennyBlanken]

...or when my local inspection station, and the cops, don't even blink at a Ford 350 with a huge-ass lift kit, mud tires that don't grip for shit and extend inches (or more) past the fenders which is insanely dangerous, a front bumper that has been replaced with a thick sheetmetal version, and the rear plate is covered by a tinted, a glossy plate cover that makes the plate virtually impossible to read, and the cherry on the pie: a "DPF delete" which means the guy is belching diesel particulate everywhere he goes.

[SoftTalker]

Wait until you hear about the “Carolina Squat”

[wlonkly]

It's funny you mention that. The other day I was out on mine on a coastal highway here, waving at a bunch of other people doing the same thing, and thinking "If someone invented these today there's no way they'd let them on the road."

They're a lot of fun though.

[harambae]

I'll play devil's advocate on this one -- most motorcycles sold today will do 125mph and the Kei trucks I'm familiar with cruise at around 55mph reliably (some may technically go up to 65mph if you sit there redlining). I'd guess some concern comes from holding up single-lane traffic. And this is coming from someone who loves the Kei trucks in rural New Hampshire, but I have been stuck behind them before too.

Also motorcycles are a part of Americana history (there's no "Easy Rider" where two guys ride a Kei truck cross-country). I'm not at all sure motorcycles would be allowed if they just started popping up 10 years ago in the US, we've gotten risk averse in recent times.

[causality0]

A single lane road with a speed limit above 55 but no passing zones is a strange beast indeed. Don't think I've ever seen one. Also plenty of construction and farm equipment is street legal despite some of them not being able to break 25mph.

[fennecfoxy]

As always, it's a speed limit, not a speed target. Overtaking lanes exist for a reason. As long as someone isn't going unreasonably below the speed limit (which is also unsafe), then it's completely fine.

[koolba]

Dark take with just enough data to make it a talking point: motorcycles allow the rider to fly off and die from a traumatic brain injury, while preserving their organs.

If you’re crushed in a Kei car they probably won’t be able to salvage much.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/12/01/health/organ-donation-motorcy...

[harambae]

Typically only true if you're not wearing a helmet.

[rootusrootus]

The only reason given is that they are not manufactured for US highways. Which may be a roundabout way of saying they aren't capable of going highway speeds.

[walrus01]

This seems like a weird way of US states attempting to enforce their own local interpretation of federal laws and not laws that actually exist as state code. Anything that's over 25 years old is specifically exempt from federal FMVSS. If it's under 25 years old you can't legally import it anyways for use on US roads (with title, etc).

People do import <25 year old kei type vehicles for use exclusively on private property on large ranches and such.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Motor_Vehicle_Safety_S...

google "usa 25 year import car rule".

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=USA+25+ye...

[brigade]

States are not required to register cars just because the federal government allows them to be imported or sold. They can add requirements consistent with their own laws, as California infamously does causing 49-state cars and parts.

Whether categorically blocking kei car registrations is consistent with the laws of some of the states doing it is a question in some ongoing lawsuits, though.

[walrus01]

Different US states' very unique interpretation of laws on certain things is something I have seen that needs explanation to foreign visitors and people who immigrate, from countries where there is one consistent legal code and regulation system of various products at the national level...

Marijuana regulations and firearms (and limitations of different types of firearms) are two obvious examples. Other things like per-state family leave laws for employees, employment law, landlord tenant law as well.

[maxerickson]

Road legal is entirely a state thing. The federal law is all about what is legal to import or offer for sale.

A different example would be emissions testing. Good ol' Michigan doesn't do it, so if you are moving to another state that does do it, it pays to think about whether your vehicle is going to pass.

[Gordonjcp]

It's bonkers how many laws there are against perfectly ordinary and normal things like importing cars in the Land of the "Free".

In the UK you basically just need it to have some form of braking system and nothing likely to slice open or skewer pedestrians as you drive past, and be able to insure it.

[jacquesm]

That's one reason why the UK is considered DIY vehicle heaven. And also why it is very much a pity that it dropped out of the EU because that gave a neat little loophole for a while.

[Aeolun]

They’re not really manufactured for Japanese highways either.

Though Japanese highways go marginally slower, 60mph is pushing the poor kei to it’s limits.

Lets just say I don’t enjoy sitting in a kei truck that’s attempting to do maximum speed.

[nine_k]

The whole point of the kei form factor is different parking rules in dense, sometimes cramped Japanese cities. Due to the small footprint, they are allowed to park in more places.

These are urban vehicles, not intended for highways, except in a pinch.

[numpad0]

There’s no separate parking laws for Kei cars, just relaxed legal processes and taxes. You still can’t park overnight on streets.

[Dalewyn]

Close but no cigar.

The real reason is because everything is small in Japan due to a lack of absolute space. Remember, the place is a god damn island nation with mountains for its interior.

Roads are narrow, particularly in the countryside and especially if we're talking about roads crisscrossing between farms and rice paddies. Normal sized cars quite literally don't fit, much less normal sized trucks.

Consequently, out in the towns and cities you see far more normal sized cars because the roads are wider.

[jacquesm]

Kei trucks are slow but there are some kei cars that are anything but. I had a first gen Daihatsu Copen that was pretty zippy for such a tiny vehicle.

[KennyBlanken]

Neither. There's an association of state DMV/RMV heads, and they have apparently decided that we shouldn't have these.

A lot of state RMVs are starting to refuse to register these vehicles, and that's why you often see them being sold for very cheap.

[bagels]

Those as well as emissions reasons.

[bane]

Curious, if you were to drive one into Oregon, what would happen?

[rootusrootus]

With the usual caveats (IANAL, etc), it would be fine. I think. So far as I know, most equipment-related regulations on cars follow the registration. Driving behavior, will be localized (e.g. double towing is still forbidden in Oregon even if you are titled and registered in California). I'm not aware of any Oregon regulation that says you can't drive a Kei car here, just that you won't be able to title & register it.

[mutex_man]

CAFE regulations basically make it so no manufacturer will touch that market. The yearly MPG requirements for vehicle manufacturers are heavily influenced by the vehicle size (track width and wheelbase). Bigger footprint means lower MPG target, that's why every new truck now is massive, and they don't make small trucks anymore like the old Tacomas and Rangers.

[chihuahua]

If by "they are absolutely everywhere" you mean "I've seen one of them in 25 years of living here", then I agree.

[mdtusz]

Forgetting that BC exists entirely. If you search "Kei" on Craigslist Vancouver, there's currently 37 postings, and they're constantly being imported here. I see them in Washington as well, although those may be Canadians just visiting.

[theluketaylor]

A notable difference being in Canada you can import vehicles at 15 years old rather than 25. There is a decent flipping trade in Vancouver to import JDM vehicles while they are Canadian eligible but not US, hang on to them for a while, then sell them south once the 25 years are up.

[PhasmaFelis]

> Forgetting that BC exists entirely.

I mean, you forgot that the PNW outside BC exists, so it seems fair.

[allenu]

At least in some parts of Seattle, you do see them a lot. In my neighborhood of Ballard, for instance, I can go for a walk and see three of them parked on the street.

[RandallBrown]

We must be neighbors (or close to it) because I think I know exactly where you're talking about.

[rootusrootus]

It probably varies quite a bit by which part of the PNW we're talking about. They're exceedingly rare in Oregon (and I'd bet they're visitors from Washington or BC), I haven't seen one in many years.

[blincoln]

They seem to be popular in rural areas of Western Washington. I saw several while visiting the San Juan Islands last year, and have spotted them fairly frequently on the Olympic Peninsula - along with other fellow RHD Japanese imports like the Mitsubishi Delica and Nissan Skyline.

[FpUser]

I enough of those in Toronto right in the area where I live

[Izikiel43]

I saw one yesterday in skagit valley

[ilyt]

They tend to be absolutely horrid when it comes to crash safety.