[rainworld]

She etc.

Absurdly strained metaphor that betrays a profound ignorance of matters of state and war in general and of the current geopolitical situation in particular.

Let me repeat once more: I have not called on Ukrainians to lay down their arms, however counterproductive their fight may be. I also understand the hard feelings.

But that’s not what’s at issue here. The situation we find ourselves in is the West fighting a proxy war against Russia. It was very much not the intention of Russia to get into such a fight, they made that clear. But the West smelled blood in the water and here we are. And I don’t expect perfect justice but we will pay for that.

In terms of materiel, the original Ukrainian armed forces are all but gone. The second, post-Soviet army they got is also mostly gone. The third and final army of Western gear is getting ground up good right now[0]. 20% in a month and that’s just what they are admitting.

There will be no fourth iteration. Either the West does the formerly unthinkable and drops the “proxy”, or, more likely, Ukrainians will find out what all those who once considered themselves friends of the US eventually found out: “He didn’t love me. I got used.”

As a consequence, after 17 months of bitter fighting, there is indeed a good chance that Ukraine (at least as we know it) will cease to exist.

You got what you paid for.

[0]: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/07/15/us/politics/ukraine-leopa...

[lisasays]

I have not called on Ukrainians to lay down their arms.

Right - it would be impolitic to say this directly.

What you are doing instead is (effectively) calling for the cessation of all military aid. Which would inevitably force the Ukrainians to do just that, shortly enough thereafter.

And saying stuff elsewhere like "it certainly would have been the prudent thing to do for them", referring to the prospect of their capitulating in the early stages of the war.

So at the end of the day - this is precisely the outcome you're lobbying for.

It was very much not the intention of Russia to get into such a fight, they made that clear.

One would have to be absolutely deluded to believe this.

Or more simply - paid to pretend to.

[rainworld]

Which would inevitably force the Ukrainians to do that, at some point.

Of course. Welcome to the real world.

Without Western help this would have happened within weeks or months and would have spared so many. The terms would have certainly disappointed Russian (but also Ukrainian) nationalists. No “Regathering of the Russian lands”, not even close. In typical Putin fashion, the terms would have been fairly generous and conservative and satisfied few.

There probably was another chance for a relatively advantageous settlement in autumn 2022. “Position of strength”, at least politically. But then you got greedy.

Well, here we are. Wunderkätze got put down unceremoniously. Have a plan B?

One would have to be absolutely deluded to believe this.

Come on, you’re not even trying. Your side spent the better part of 2022 making fun of Putin’s “impotent bluff”. It’s either-or.

[lisasays]

Have a plan B?

Seems you've found yourself a pretty nifty one:

Bait, bait. Evade, evade. Troll, troll, troll.

[q87b]

Thank you for countering the propaganda <3

[chrysler]

>> Without Western help this would have happened within weeks or months and would have spared so many.

Genocide won't spare anyone.