[laurencerowe]

The US is by far the most favourable place to be a highly paid professional but I do worry about whether it is the best place to raise a family.

The level of violence here is just so much higher than other countries. Even living in San Francisco where the murder rate is half that of the US it is still double that of Europe and Canada. There was a gun battle at our local play park a couple of weeks back.

The house price / wage ratio in Canada is shockingly bad though.

[bequanna]

> The level of violence here is just so much higher than other countries. Even living in San Francisco where the murder rate is half that of the US it is still double that of Europe and Canada.

The Bay Area is not representative of the rest of the US. Crime is out of control in SF proper and the Bay Area more generally due to reduced enforcement.

[laurencerowe]

The Bay Area is definitely not representative of the US as it is far safer overall. According to CDC Wonder for 2021 deaths from assault per 100k population were:

San Francisco County 4.9

California 6.3

USA 7.8

Santa Clara County is safer at 2.7 though I would really miss living in a walkable neighbourhood.

[bequanna]

> The Bay Area is definitely not representative of the US as it is far safer overall.

Cherry picking stats doesn’t make it true.

SF-proper is one of the worst urban areas in the US. Maybe only topped by Philly.

[121789]

That’s a bizarre statement. SF has ugly areas but still feels very safe. Would feel much more comfortable being dropped off in the worst places there vs Chicago, St Louis, LA, Miami, New Orleans, Atlanta and a bunch of other places

[selimthegrim]

I live in New Orleans and I have to say I feel safer there than San Francisco

[laurencerowe]

Downtown San Francisco can be unpleasant but you are more than 10x as likely to be killed in Orleans Parish (51.7 deaths by assault per 100k) than San Francisco County (4.9).

[bequanna]

How about Oakland at 2AM?

[121789]

Yes, Oakland is also on the list of the many cities that are more dangerous than SF

[laurencerowe]

I'm really not trying to cherry pick stats, death by assault / homicide is a pretty good indicator of levels of violent crime. SF-proper (i.e. San Francisco County) has a huge and highly visible homelessness problem and is definitely an outlier on that dimension. But while that is unpleasant it is less worrying than actual violence.

The US limits gun control so even in states like California that try to do something about it there are many more deaths than in countries which actually do something about it.

[shepherdjerred]

Couldn't you just move outside of the city where is it significantly more safe? There are plenty of options between living in San Francisco and moving to Europe. I live in Seattle, and while there are _plenty_ of problems, I don't think it would be a bad place to have a family.

[laurencerowe]

At least according to CDC Wonder, King County has about the same rate of death from assault at 4.8/100k vs 4.9/100k for San Francisco County.

Edit to add: It's not just the absolute levels that I worry about but the effect that ever present gun violence has on society with kids being subjected to frightening active shooter drills in schools that just aren't necessary in other developed countries.

[shepherdjerred]

I don't know. Obviously school shootings are bad. Bad things will always happen as long as humans exist, and these bad things have some impact on children. We'll always want to reduce the amount of harm our children are exposed to.

But, isn't being a child in the United States significantly better than being a child _anywhere else_ 100 years ago? Even with the psychological harm caused by school shootings, hasn't there been a net improvement? I would much rather be a child worrying about a school shooter (with, in reality, a minuscule chance of it physically effecting me) versus being a child during the great depression, either of the world wars, or the cold war.

It's a very logical argument and coming from someone nowhere close to starting a family though; I am sure that most parents might agree but would continue to want their kids to be safer.

I'm not trying to say that none of this matters... I guess what I'm trying to say is that, those kids ended up alright in far worse circumstances, so kids today will be alright too.