[anonym29]

No matter how many compromises, how many DoS events / lockouts, or how many other times internet-based password managers royally screw up, it never ceases to amaze me how people continue to trudge back to these sorry services.

"It's so convenient!" "I don't like having to manually sync between devices with <100% local password manager>!"

Convenience addicts making excuses for their next hit of convenience... no matter how severely convenience harms them.

[kevincox]

I hate to say it but convenience is king. If I need to log into accounts on my phone and computer there are two options 1. Use a crappy password that I can remember 2. Use a syncing password manager. If the password manager doesn't sync it doesn't provide enough convenience to be useful to me and I will fall back to 1.

Convenience has long been an underrated aspect of security. If you make the secure option as convenient (or even more convenient) than the insecure option people will do it. Of course security is always in opposition to convenience to some degree (otherwise we wouldn't have passwords at all, just type in your username to log in, we trust you completely), but minimizing the inconvenience is key to making the system secure in practice. If you make the system too inconvenient people will just work around it no matter how secure it is in theory.

I think we are beginning to understand this and things are improving, but many legacy systems still suffer. For example NIST guidelines have accepted this and now recommend against time-base password rotation[1] but many organizations still enforce it.

[1] https://pages.nist.gov/800-63-FAQ/#q-b05

[Zambyte]

Syncing and managing passwords can be handled just fine by two separate applications. I switched from LP to Syncthing + KeePassXC several years ago, and besides the initial setup it has been exactly the same level of convenience. And the only thing that was more difficult with the set up is that I had to install two applications on my machines instead of one.

[throw1230]

having to use two apps and a harder setup process is already inconvenient

[predictabl3]

More inconvenient than having your LastPass hacked? More inconvenient than migrating password managers twice a decade?

I'm with GP. Something's are worth taking a modicum of effort and doing right. Especially for this, especially for this audience.

[kstrauser]

This is so critically important! “Convenient + good” is vastly better than “inconvenient + better” for 99% of common use cases.

[anonym29]

Secret security isn't a common use case, as it has an uncommon but critical property - it's binary - either the credential is leaked / stolen or it isn't.

If "convenient + good" isn't good enough and your credential is compromised, your solution fails completely, 0% score.

If "inconvenient + better" does prevent the compromise of your credential, then it is an absolute success, 100% score.

Prioritizing convenience over security while selecting your password manager is like prioritizing keyless entry over functioning brakes while shopping for a used car - it's clearly a stupid decision even from the perspective of a layperson.

I'll shed zero tears as I play the world's smallest violin when people who've made such decisions have their identity stolen, home forclosed, and savings drained because "muh convenience!"

[kstrauser]

People who study this for a living say that you’re wrong on balance. For example, it would be great if every changed their password every time they logged into every service they used. Forget TOTP for 2FA — let’s make one-time passwords for everything!

But in practice, making people change their passwords regularly ends up with them inventing convenient workarounds to avoid the mental overhead of having to learn a new password constantly. “Last month I used `Passw0rd!23`. This month I’ll use `Passw0rd!24`.” And then when their password DB is inevitably breached, an attacker has a pretty great guess as to what their password will be next month.

In a perfect world where everyone perfectly followed perfect instructions to the letter, convenience isn’t critically important. In the one we actually live in it, is. And it’s not just me saying this.

[anonym29]

"In a perfect world where everyone perfectly followed perfect instructions to the letter, convenience isn’t critically important. In the one we actually live in it, is. And it’s not just me saying this."

Is this your polite, roundabout way of saying "A number of users are literally so stupid that they're incapable of making rational decisions in their own password management practices"?

I would tend to disagree. I think most people have the capability to follow instructions and act responsibily, when they want to. We really shouldn't be letting the general public drive 3-ton SUV's capable of rapidly accelerating to 120+ mph (200+ kmh) if that weren't true, right?

[anonym29]

Option 3. Use a secure password manager on device 1, make a second encrypted database with only the needed credentials of device 2, move the encrypted database to device 2.

• Pros - actually secure

• Cons - takes about 18 seconds longer and teeny tiny bit of cognitive effort

Options 1 and 2

• Pros - Caters to NPCs and other entities incapable of thought, effortless

• Cons - horrific and lengthy track record of brutally failing to perform the SINGLE necessary function, keeping passwords secure.