[nvarsj]

The level scaling is a really bizarre design choice. Every game with this feels bad. There is no sense of progression as your character gets punished for levelling up.

Some game designers think it’s a great idea though - hence it’s in D4. I’d love to hear their take.

[kaoD]

I've come to terms with this.

Even though it still feels weird I can see why they did it: since the game is not linear at all (I think you can even do the first 3 acts in any order) compared to other Diablo games (didn't play 3) they kinda need to do this so you don't breeze through zones. It also helps when playing with under/over leveled friends since they just use the same system to prevent you from rushing them.

Personally I prefer linear narrative and gameplay for Diablo (it's like making linear games is a sin nowadays) but it's probably a wise choice given other design choices? Or at least understandable. It allows them to send you back and forth across regions and still present a challenge.

Anyways: I'm liking D4 (I'm surprised to say this of a Blizzard game in 2023) so not the worst design ever.

[YurgenJurgensen]

Level scaling isn't necessary for a nonlinear game. Plenty of games have nonlinear areas and no level scaling because they have relatively flat progression curves. D4 only 'needs' level scaling because it also 'needs' to be Cookie Clicker and Lootbox Simulator with an ARPG wrapped around it, and neither of those systems work with flat progression curves.

[kaoD]

Sorry I don't see what you mean with flat progression curve or how it solves anything here.

If I'm level 70 and I go to a level 15 area, how would that solve that I'm just going to cut through the area like butter?

[YurgenJurgensen]

By not making level 70s cut through level 15 enemies like butter. If your level 70 is only 50% stronger than a level 15, if the enemies were challenging for a level 15, they won't be trivial for the level 70.

[nvarsj]

Thinking about it more, one cool thing about level scaling is I can play with my friends at whatever level they are. It doesn't really matter for the endgame at all, but when you're leveling up early on it is pretty nice.

[avereveard]

It's the lazy way out to world design for non linear games.

Why put any effort in making sure player locality influences the surrounding quest level, if player can go anywhere, let's put level appropriate enemy everywhere.

Dungeon siege approach was so much better, even if the game was not as solid: minibosses or higher difficulties quests barred the access to higher difficulties areas. Within a zone, progression and choices were non linear. Item and enemies and xp reward were leveled to the zone, so the player had an incentive to not stick around in low level zones farming aimlessly.

[detaro]

To a degree you can also "hide" it in places where it is logical. E.g. if a game has an enemy faction that goes out of its way to attack the player, it does make sense that these attacks get stronger - if someone causes a faction more trouble, he gets more attention and stronger assets are sent to take them out, guards are reinforced, ... And maybe in reverse, weaker intelligent enemies make a point of avoiding the player (would some badly-equipped bandits really ambush a party that's clearly better prepared for combat than them?). That's then somewhat satisfying: clearly those enemies are stronger, and you now can beat them!

What makes little sense is if wildlife you've encountered before suddenly can take 4x more damage, or the same badly equipped guard suddenly fights back a lot better.

[filoleg]

> Why put any effort in making sure player locality influences the surrounding quest level, if player can go anywhere, let's put level appropriate enemy everywhere.

That's not how it works in Diablo 4, enemy scaling only comes into play if you go to an area that is naturally lower level than yours. Looking at the world map and hovering over areas shows their minimum "recommended" level, and enemies there will start at that level.

So you absolutely can go as a lvl 10 character to an area that expects you to be 40+ and get smacked down in a few hits by a basic lvl 40 minion.

[ordinary]

I believe (with zero supporting evidence) that Blizzard implemented level scaling reluctantly, in order to better facilitate ad-hoc group play. Unfortunately, they kind of screwed it up.

When you move around in the overworld, you sometimes run into another player. They're fighting some enemies, you jump in to help (or vice versa) and it's amazing. Those are some of my favourite moments in the game, and the only reason it works is because of the level scaling. Even if my character is only level 10 and theirs is level 40, we can fight the same enemies and have roughly equal impact, because for me those enemies are level 10, and for them those same enemies are level 40! It's really clever, and I think they felt the sense of progression was an necessary sacrifice to enable that kind of improvised cooperative play.

"But ordinary, you said they screwed it up!" Yeah, they did. Because what happens when the enemies are dead? You continue towards your quest, and they continue towards theirs, and poof, you're all alone again. These brief moments are tantalizingly close to true pick-up experience: you start playing, meet a few people, team up, and have a blast together for an hour or so, just like you could in Diablo 2.

Oh, and even if you do happen to have the same quest, unless you took the relatively scary step of formally inviting them to your (1-person) party, the moment you enter a dungeon, you each get your own instance, and you're torn apart.

And finally, there's no global chat, so the only real way you have of communicating with people you meet prior to inviting them to a party is a Hearthstone-style emote wheel. There are at least 3 quests that require you to use the emote wheel, so they really wanted you to know it's there and to learn to use it, but in practice no one does and it's useless.

Taken together, it just barely doesn't work and it's really unfortunate. And counterintuitively those brief moments of comradery make the game feel more lonely than if you never met anyone at all. Because time and again, you're confronted with the fact that people are out there! Having fun, kicking ass, taking names. Just... you know, not with you.

The only thing I can't quite figure out is why they didn't attempt to 'matchmake' players of similar levels together. There are literally millions of people playing Diablo 4 at any one time, surely there's someone who's doing the same quest at about the same level as me? Why don't I meet those people? Or maybe the odds just don't work out, even at that scale.