[artisanspam]

I’m curious to hear the perspective of someone who is both into motorcycles and bicycles, as I’ve only ridden on a motorcycle a handful of times, while I cycle nearly daily.

Bicycle maintenance can be annoying, but it doesn’t seem nearly as time-intensive as motorcycle maintenance. On the other hand, the process of cycling feels better to me compared to being on a motor bike. It’s quieter, slower, and great exercise. I can talk with others. I feel as though I can get into a state of peace on lower effort rides, as well as a state of flow while racing.

[tonymet]

I spend more time on a bicycle , including commuting , and ride a motorcycle regularly. The two hobbies complement each other well. The riding experience and maintenance skills are complementary .

Motorcycles naturally offer more range for explanation and carry more load . i use mine to discover new routes and destinations and later hit them on the bike

Motorcycle handling requires similar techniques and the mindfulness that is developed on a bike . Though handling doesn’t translate 1:1– an expert cyclist will quickly develop expert moto handling – especially off road

Maintenance has similar parallels. Bike maintenance is a great intro to moto maintenance . Troubleshooting , understanding systems , experimentation , observation , patience , using hand tools etc are all skills that are foundational for motorcycle maintenance

I would encourage every cyclist to take on motorcycle riding . Motorcycling benefits from a similar mindset and expands on the skills and experiences

[Velofellow]

was typing my reply before I saw your comment. Glad to see someone else being a proponent of the "do both!" camp. Happy riding.

[Velofellow]

Very much into both!

I'm at an extreme end on of the cycling hobby by hours spent on the bike and miles covered (mountain biking, road biking, racing) and currently ride a very modern, and very red Italian sport bike - just for pleasure on quiet roads, no commuting or errand running. From a maintenance perspective given my use patterns (~8,000 miles/year human powered, ~4,000 miles moto powered) I'm wrenching, fixing, replacing parts far more often on my bicycles. An absolute money pit, but one that gives me the best emotional and physical ROI. YMMV but my experience with modern motorcycles has been they are almost shockingly reliable given their power output, electrical and rider aid improvements, etc.

I've had vintage motorcycles that required more tinkering which is engaging in its own right but am thankful modern tech has gotten to a point where I'm not constantly doing maintenance on my entire two wheeled fleet. I get my joy from the use of the machine, rather than the upkeep. I'm eternally grateful to those who view things the other way. My preference is to wrench on bicycles though, mainly because of their relative simplicity and limited number of specialty tools required. With 2mm-8mm allen keys, and a small screw driver you can do most basics of maintenance. Not counting suspension service, bearing service, and the like.

Side note: Being deep into both worlds I feel that my bike (motorcycle) handling skills have vastly improved because of my mountain biking: Body positioning, threshold braking, leaning the bike independently of the body vs. leaning with the bike etc. Curious if anyone else here has had that same realization. I've tried converting some cycling team mates to the moto world... few takers but I believe there is true cross-training to be had there.

[ben7799]

I don't motorcycle anymore but did for a long time and did both a huge amount of riding and some very serious maintenance jobs. I have kept bicycling thousands of miles a year since. In the past I did a bunch of different types of bicycle racing. Never did motorcycle racing but I did go to quite a few track days.

In general with a few exceptions everything on motorcycles is far more competently engineered.

Bicycle manufacturers brag about engineering a lot but actually seem to employ very few engineers. The bicycle industry is still re-engineering things like brakes over and over when all those lessons were learned on motorcycles decades ago and the bike companies could have copied almost all of it from motorcycles.

There's just a lot of stuff on bicycles where the tools are more expensive than the motorcycle equivalents and the maintenance procedures are more annoying. Motorcycle brakes are a great example. Things are relatively standard and all the tools are affordable and the maintenance procedures are great. Do the same job on hydraulic disc brakes on a bicycle and it's all terrible. Tools cost 3x more and might be vendor specific, procedures are terrible because of the design of the brakes, and the job probably takes longer.

You can go spend more on a Trek or a Specialized than a lot of motorcycles at this point. Other than the amount of carbon fiber there is almost no justification for the price, especially since 99% of the bicycle is outsourced.

I always found the education level among motorcyclists in terms of how a bike actually rides much higher. The % of "expert cyclists" who understand basics like counter steering is shockingly low, and bicyclists are far more likely to have poor understanding of how to ride in traffic safely. Mostly because motorcycling actually has a training & education system. I always felt like motorcycling actually taught me more about bicycling than the reverse.

[Velofellow]

Absolutely agree with the high end bike vs. motorcycle cost analysis. My new, but prior floor year Ducati was roughly the same price as either of S-works mountain bikes. Sorta crazy to the uninitiated. Or anyone.

I have a pet theory, that the proliferation of top-shelf Class 1/pedal assist Ebikes ($14-15k) has given manufacturers the green light to raise prices on top of all the covid supply chain gremlins. The number of $10k analogue mountain bikes has blown up in the past 3 years.

I do wonder how any cost impact that comes from miniaturization of bicycle components (coupled with smaller production quantities using composites) looks compared to their moto counterparts. Offering the same bike frame with 5+ different component builds must have some cost ramifications with supply chain management in buying /allocating groupsets & components en masse. It does seem like the mountain bike market has matured a bit: fewer radical yearly geometry changes, more streamlining and sensible, incremental changes. Just my thoughts as a voracious consumer of bike stuff. I'm all for a standardizing brake bleed ports and hydraulic maintenance - mineral oil please!

It's funny, I've anecdotally noticed the opposite here in Austin. The number of motorcycle riders who clearly have no concept of handling a moto seems to outnumber the people acting the same way on bicycles. Can't speak to your locale, but Austin certainly has a strong cycling community with lots of proficient riders; I think I'm also in a bit of a filter bubble with my riding crew.

[taeric]

I'm curious if they really could just copy something from the motorcycle world? In particular, I would imagine that the constraints on weight and power that can be applied by the user are very very different.

[simplyluke]

Yeah, I think a number of these comments are significantly disregarding the engineering challenges faced in bicycle manufacturing. I suspect trying to design a < 7kg bike that can withstand the forces of a 90kg rider putting out 1500+ watts would make many moto engineers pull their hair out.

There’s a reason many innovations in the bike world have come from aerospace.

[f001]

Motorcycle:

- long distance trips through N America led me close to a ton of wildlife I would not have seen or dared come close to on bicycle. Mama bears with curious cubs, moose drinking water by the roadside, wolves in one case

- allowed me to tackle trails in a day I would not be able to do on a mountain bike (eg. the trails around Moab)

- ability to go on roads Bikes are not legal (crossing the confederation bridge to get to PEI; don’t think bikes are allowed)

- ability to traverse distances equivalent to a car, but while feeling much more connected to your surroundings. Helps when you only have so much vacation time you can take.

Bicycle:

- much more enjoyable trips through Toronto via routes not possible on motorcycle (parks, ravines, etc.)

- many trails do not allow motorcycles but allow mountain bikes

- allowed a limited freedom at a young age to explore the city around me

- the wonderful post exercise feeling

[jethro_tell]

Sometimes going fast is the point, there's a certain peace of being so fast the world can't touch you.

Sometimes going slow is the point, and there's a certain peace of be able to view and interact with the world in that way.

[ecefour]

To me bicycle maintenance is tedious. It’s something I do too on keep my bike running smoothly but not something I look forward to.

Motorcycle maintenance is more rewarding. I have a 70s bike so it requires a lot of work to keep it running smoothly. Motorcycle maintenance more complex and I find far more enjoyment in it. It can be tedious, but it’s not as bad as adjusting a derailleur or lubricating a chain.

I think this article could be summarized as “problem solving offers many learning opportunities”

[ben7799]

I kind of see it both ways. Some really complex stuff on motorcycles is incredibly time consuming & hard. The two hardest jobs I did on my motorcycles were:

First - Repairs after a big racetrack crash where the bike slid and then cartwheeled after crashing around 70mph in a corner. Bike would have been totaled for sure if it was a street crash. It took me months to fix everything considering I was working full time.

Second - Repairing a coolant leak in a horrible spot that required removal of gas tank, airbox, EFI system, etc.. massive surgery. The leak was not that bad but was driving me insane and the shops were all trying to talk me out of doing it as they said they'd charge me a lot.

Those big motorcycle maintenance jobs were insanely rewarding once complete though. And I think they cause you to really view that motorcycle as "yours".

Some bike jobs I do find tedious (cleaning) but things like adjusting a derailleur I'm so good at it I can do it in my sleep so it's quick and hard to get bothered.

Bicycle stuff that bothers me is stuff like routing internal cables or bleeding badly designed brake systems. I do tend to do those though as the shop will charge like $100/hr labor for it and tell you that you have to wait weeks for them to do it. Bicycle tools are super overpriced but they still pay for themselves after only 1-2 jobs!

Bicycle repair does not grant as much of a rewarding feeling when your done and so much bicycle stuff is throwaway. The components all wear out pretty fast and are mostly not repairable.

[ecefour]

I totally see what you’re saying. When i work on my car it can be tedious, complex, time consuming. It’s fun, rewarding but also tiring. Especially since it’s my daily. I can’t have it off the road for more than a couple days.

I should have elaborated more, but I have a tiny 70s bike. It’s has a two stroke, air cooled, carbonated engine. I could probably rebuild the motor in an afternoon. It’s incredibly easy to access nearly everything so it’s far more enjoyable. I much rather do that than work on my bicycle.

[Fradow]

I do car maintenance rather than motorcycle maintenance, but same opinion: bicycle maintenance is tedious. So tedious that beside chain greasing and tires pressure, I pay someone rather than DIY. I hate adjusting breaks or gears with a passion.

On the other hand, cars (and I assume motorcycle as well) maintenance is enjoyable: there is no fiddling with stuff, you fit it, torque it and it's good.

[smileysteve]

Until you start customizing; then you're figuring out camber and toe angles; remapping your fuel curve, adjusting road height, preload on anti sway bars, different brake pad compounds.

[Fradow]

True. I've not reached that stage, and probably won't, since most of those are illegal to do on road cars where I live.

[sublimefire]

Motorcycles these days need little maintenance, except washing it. I know I know you need to look after the chain and do the pre-ride checks, but that is it. I own 2 motorcycles, one new and the other old. The old one needs some stuff done but I cannot do that myself because of a couple of issues: do not have a garage, do not have all the tools. The new one needs nothing, it just rides and I need to bring it for servicing once in a year.

The most annoying thing for me is that I can leave the motorcycle outside with a lock but I need to bring in my bicycle into the garden shed (it is just too light).

Bicycle on the other hand is different, it is much easier to get a puncture, the bolts get lose, it wears off much more quickly. You can also fix it in your home, e.g. change tubes and tires easily.

[xkcd-sucks]

Maybe bicycle racers / crazy downhill mountain bikers will disagree, but half-assed YOLO cowboy maintenance, and deferring of maintenance, feels much less risky on a bicycle than on a motorcycle.

Of course the powertrain and packing of components is orders of magnitide more complicated too, it's more similar to car maintenance that doesn't require a lift

[ben7799]

I would count as a bicycle racer and crazy mountain biker I guess.

I think the thing is a lot of bicyclists are not really doing things half-assed YOLO style.

Bicycle mechanics are rarely really professionals. There's very little training or education requirement for being one compared to motorcycles or cars.

I have had a lot of cases where so called professional bicycle shops did work that was so bad they'd be in legal trouble if they were working on cars. And I can and do buy most of the same tools they do.

The only thing I really draw the line on is I do not do major wheel repairs or build wheels or disassemble & service hubs. Those jobs are so rare I just can't justify the space or cost for the tools. If I only need something once every 10 years I just can't see dedicating that amount of space & money to it.

[dahart]

I’m into all things two-wheeled, have done lots of road & mountain biking on bicycles, and road & dirt motorcycling. I’ll share my perspective, and apologize in advance for the length. I wouldn’t put them on a single 1D spectrum and presume to call one better than another, for me they all serve rather different functions. I’d completely agree with the advantages you list for road bikes, I just think there are other different advantages for mountain bikes, dirt bikes (off-road motorcycles), and road motorcycles.

Road motorcycling, especially if you can fix anything on the motorcycle, comes with a strong sense of freedom compared to car driving, and it’s for traveling longer distances. There’s an aspect of shedding all your dependencies, not needing to rely on a huge machine that you can’t fix, but still being able to go fast & far. Weird analogy, but I find it similar to long distance running - there’s a threshold for me above about 15 or 20 miles where it suddenly starts to feel like I can go anywhere with my feet.

Dirt biking is technical motorcycling, shares some aspects of downhill mountain biking, but requires a lot of very different skills from any other kind of riding. Learning those skills is really fun, and being able to get far out into the wilderness and access places you can’t go by any other means is also very fun. The technical riding requires a lot more simultaneous clutch, brake, and throttle work than road riding, and I find it similar in certain ways to playing the drums in the sense that you need a lot of body awareness and the ability to do things with hands and feet at the same time. Technical uphill riding is very different from downhill and/or mountain biking. BTW technical dirt biking can be insane amounts of exercise. Some dirt moto rides I’ve done are equivalent to doing 50-100 miles with big climbs on a bicycle, everyone in the group burned thousands of calories and started bonking by the end. Can’t talk while you ride, but it’s very social; riding with others is an absolute must, there’s planning beforehand, there’s lots of stoping and talking, and you can end up with a lot of camaraderie when working through difficult features and pushing your abilities or helping others.

Mountain biking has all the advantages you mentioned for cycling, it can quiet and serene. Even better than road biking sometimes since you don’t have to deal with traffic. I usually ride with others, but sometimes alone is very zen. There’s anything from riding dirt roads, to cross-country single track through the forest, to adrenaline: technical downhill or mountain bike park with jumps. Fabulous exercise, and a great way to experience the outdoors.

For the maintenance question, I’d say I probably spend as much or more time on bicycle maintenance, but it’s mainly because I currently ride bicycles much more frequently. The maintenance tasks are smaller, shorter, and simpler, but need doing more often. Cleaning, chain & joint lube, and fixing flats is the majority of bicycle maintenance. I bled my mountain bike brakes once, and that was pretty involved for a noob, required a special kit & a couple hours. The moto maintenance tasks take longer per session, they’re more difficult, and require more tools and knowledge, but they’ve been less frequent. Changing oil, bleeding shocks, fixing electrical, replacing parts. A tire/tube change on a bicycle is a 5 minute task, while a tire change on a motorcycle can easily take an hour or two if you try to do it yourself with tire irons (not recommended!). The big stuff goes to a professional mechanic, of course.