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by JumpCrisscross 1095 days ago
> the US set the precedent for complete disregard of international (and even US) law for own benefit

Nobody followed the human rights or no-foreign military intervention chapters of international law, ever. Not in the Cold War [1]. Not in the 90s [2][3].

The one chapter that was held sacrosanct by the Great Powers was no annexing. There was Metternichean proxy governing. But no annexing. That is the red line Putin blundered through.

[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_interventions_by_the...

[2] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samashki_massacre

[3] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novye_Aldi_massacre

1 comments

The US, a sole world leader in the 1990s-2000s, had the responsibility and opportunity to uphold international law. Instead they chose to function as an imperialist power. Today they claim to protect international law.

EDIT: RESPONSE TO BELLOW

> Russia was already violating the human rights chapters in ‘95

Correction, Russia was already violating rights of its own citizens in 1993 [0] with full US blessings

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1993_Russian_constitutional_cr...

> US, a sole world leader in the 1990s-2000s, had the responsibility and opportunity to uphold international law

That’s a hell of a punt there. You said “the US set the precedent” for disregarding international law, starting by citing the bombing of Yugoslavia in ‘99. Russia was already violating the human rights chapters in ‘95, and the Soviet Union (alongside America) was violating the foreign-intervention chapters since basically they were penned.

So no, there was no precedent. America continued with the status quo. You’re arguing Washington failed to create a new precedent, as it did when it had global nuclear hegemony in the aftermath of WWII. That’s a legitimate argument. But a different one from that which you’re making.

> Russia was already violating rights of its own citizens in 1993 [0] with full US blessings

Why are the Americans (or NATO) always responsible for the awful things the Russian government does?

Because Yeltsin was heavily supported by the US. He bombed elected officials not favourable to the US. Similar thing happened when the US supported Saddam and Pinochet
BTW, US embassy staff was trying to negotiate peaceful meeting between opposition and Eltsin's team. But "elected officials" tried to seize TV building with military force instead of discussions.

I don't see how US could be blamed for this.

im not really interested in blaming the US. but the fact is he would never had gotten away with it had the US not stood by him. at that time in Russia there was a real prospect of communists returning to power ... through elections. mainly im interested in pointing out that the US is a hypocrite when it comes to its own values and that it too should be seen as an imperialist power. same as Russia. only once people see both entities as bad a proper thesis about a better more just world can be made. i have no problem saying f*ck putin or f*ck biden (or f*ck trump) as long as it is in the same sentence
>> only once people see both entities as bad a proper thesis about a better more just world can be made.

You're putting a loser mentality on full display. As much as cynical smartass Russians like to mock "fat stupid Americans", in the end of the day it comes down to what kind of life do governments provide for their citizens. Americans live far longer, healthier, happier, more peaceful and more prosperous lives than you do. They have allies all over the world who willingly engage in commerce, cultural exchange, political and military cooperation, and many other things without coersion because of the mutual benefits it brings.

Russia is a cargo cult version of this. Tries to imitate American influence in the world, but fails, because Russians bring very little of any value to the this world. Mostly things that are in the ground anyway, and not products of their ingenuity and determined work.

No, you are not equals. America is a vast incredibly rich empire, but you're just a gas station with nukes. No amount of whataboutism changes the simple fact that everyone envies the Americans and sees you as losers.

i have no problem saying f*ck putin or f*ck biden (or f*ck trump) as long as it is in the same sentence

Some folks are caught in purity spirals. Your basic problem (or at least one of them, anyway -- from the content of your postings here, you seem to have many) is that you're caught in a Whataboutism spiral. Which is just as debilitating, but you don't seem to realize this yet.

So you think that US had to invade Russia to remove Eltsin?! He was elected in 1991 (even before USSR collapsed) and had very strong support in Moscow and major cities.

And elections in 1993 (after the dissolution of parliament) were won by Zhirinovsky's party, communists were only 3rd. US never supported Zhirinovsky and he wasn't a communist.

I don't see how US could be blamed for anything that happened in 1993 because they were really trying to stop the crisis, but far-right nationalists (like Barkashov and Makashov) started military actions, like mayor's office assault and TV building attack.

This is not a "returning to power ... through elections" for sure.

If you want Americans to run your country and be responsible for everything that happens there, then start by flying Stars and Stripes over the Kremlin.
Yeah, ok, so just the basic "America bad," view of things.
Just goes to show there are useful idiots on every side :)
That's not a nice thing to say about yourself.