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by cjsplat 1108 days ago
Cloud services have a lot of back end.

Cluster management, file systems, disk / storage systems, network management, database systems.

None of those require user or OS instruction set compatibility for legacy apps that are hard or impossible to recompile.

And most of these applications don't really require gonzo superscalar performance. Add more cores, support more data streams.

If you can eliminate licensing costs for that portion of your fleet, then you only need to expand the ISA compatible portion of your fleet as demanded by paying customers.

As an example, suppose all of a cloud provider's services can migrate to RISC-V. As organic demand for x86 Cloud among customers grows, services can shift incrementally to the cheaper home grown platforms. And since the freed up machines are at least partially depreciated, the cost of these servers is much less than what a customer would pay for new servers on prem. (depreciated Cap-ex, far better Op-Ex).

The interesting question is the transition rate of end customer apps to the new ISA vs the growth rate of locked ISA apps.

Eventually the locked ISA apps portion becomes a lot like the current IBM mainframe business. Very valuable to a very small number of customers.

The only counter for this is if x86 can crank performance per $TCO so far that the non-x86 branch can't compete in business terms, which has historically been the issue with ARM.

2 comments

> Cluster management, file systems, disk / storage systems, network management, database systems.

… and fully managed cloud services (serverless databases, API gateways, messaging components, supplementary services etc etc). Which is where the hardware replacement is likely most frantic but impossible to glean into without having the insider knowledge. And since the fully managed services are charged on the usage basis, it is possible to utilise the hardware more efficiently under the hood and completely transparently to the end user (if properly architected) as opposed to spinning up cloud VM's.

> The only counter for this is if x86 can crank performance per $TCO so far that the non-x86 branch can't compete in business terms, which has historically been the issue with ARM.

If we take AWS for example, isn't the performance per TCO better of an Arm-based Graviton instance better than x86? I don't think the historical issue you cite represents the future.

Impossible to know from the outside.

We know what they are selling it for, but that isn't the same.

True TCO needs to include the cost to develop the chip - after all, that is folded into the x86 price.

If you assume that the Graviton project is $250M per chip design for the 3 iterations, and the online estimates of 1 million chips is accurate, then you need to add about $750 per CPU, beyond the probably $250 per chip fab'ed and packaged.

$1000 per chip gets you a lot of x86 horsepower.

$250M seems a massive overestimate given that the majority of the design is done by ARM and licensed from them.
For example see :

https://www.semianalysis.com/p/the-dark-side-of-the-semicond...

I think you are overestimating the value and amount of help from ARM, especially in the more recent Graviton generations, but of course I don't know Amazon's actual chip cost profile.