[timf]

Related:

Reddit is creating an exemption to its unpopular new API pricing terms for makers of accessibility apps, which could come as a big relief for some developers worried about how to afford the potentially expensive fees and the users that rely on the apps to browse Reddit. As long as those apps are noncommercial and “address accessibility needs,” they won’t have to pay to access Reddit’s data.

“We’ve connected with select developers of non-commercial apps that address accessibility needs and offered them exemptions from our large-scale pricing terms,” Reddit spokesperson Tim Rathschmidt says in a statement to The Verge.

From https://www.theverge.com/2023/6/7/23752804/reddit-exempt-acc...

[kmeisthax]

>noncommercial

This is a water sandwich.

There is no unambiguous single definition of commercial activity in the law: some parts of the law define it one way, some jurisdictions differ as to what is and isn't commercial, and some parts of the law explicitly deny the existence of noncommercial activity (e.g. copyright law). So Reddit has promised literally nothing here.

Furthermore, their explicit goal is to prevent scraping by ML training companies. This is inherently opposed to accessibility. If you add accessibility to copy protection, you weaken the copy protection[0]. So Reddit can either tell blind people to go fuck themselves, or they can accept that there's always going to be at least some backdoor for AI to scrape Reddit.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Elcom_Ltd.

[no_butterscotch]

Yup.

Whatever blind dev is making a living providing an app (or other software) as an accessibility layer for the blind over reddit will now have to potentially do so for free.

[travisjungroth]

The hypocrisy of companies that live on user content is pretty amazing. They want to act like we’re all just vibing. And then hey, really sorry, we gotta put a few ads up to keep the servers up and pay the devs ($424mm worth last year). But you wanna get paid for making an app for blind people to use our site? Helllll no.

[renewiltord]

Or provide a set of steps to generate a client ID and secret to put into their app, right?

[ncr100]

.. And how can a developer not charge for their specialty-app?

Reddit is requiring Disabled to use an app developed at the LOWEST COST - this is clear discrimination, in the legal sense.

It may not be illegal, but legally they are "discriminating", based upon the legal usage of that word.

[Mezzie]

Also fuck those of us who are visually impaired but not blind because I bet their definition of 'accessibility needs' is going to result in a Reddit so limited it's useless to those who need anything other than text only.

I'm visually impaired (on the mild side) and I have a lot of neuro-visual issues. I have a lot of problems with visual crowding, visual sensitivity to stimuli (bright colors, movement, etc.), and have ~ 20/50 vision when corrected. (Or 20/80ish in my glasses at night time which is also when I use Reddit). I use third party apps because I need a lot of their 'cosmetic' features: I can set the colors to not be too much to process (pure white on black or black on white sucks for me), I can set images and videos to hide by default so they don't distract/tire me browsing but I can easily see them if I want to, I can avoid ads (which tend to flash/move or be very glaringly colored and can easily result in headaches), and I can have more fine grain control over text size, where information is located, etc.

[thorum]

Separate “accessibility” apps for people with disabilities always lag behind in features compared to apps that target a wider audience while still being accessible. Basically relegating people with disabilities to a second class experience.

[digging]

So if reddit's official app is difficult to use, at what point can regular 3rd party apps claim to be accessibility tools?

[cwkoss]

Society needs 'allergic to UX dark patterns' to be included in the next DSM

[nerpderp82]

There needs to be a preferences setting sent in the HTTP header to activate high contrast and low motion modes. Just having "dark mode" is not enough.

[digging]

I agree, but I think you misread the comment you're replying to. They were referring to "dark patterns," a design feature used to trick users into taking actions they otherwise wouldn't. Much harder to flag :P

[nerpderp82]

Sorry, I want all dark patterns to be surrounded by a high contrast "dark pattern border".

[digging]

this is what the internet was meant to be

[chaosharmonic]

Would high contrast not be a CSS thing? I know `prefers-reduced-motion` is...

[notatoad]

yes, high-contrast is a CSS media query just like prefers-reduced-motion is

[extra88]

* prefers-contrast: more

[MrStonedOne]

Some of those UX dark patterns would qualify as making the site inaccessible to people with add and adhd, others make it inaccessible to people with autism.

engagement driving bullshit could very easy become banned under ADA if the right public servant gave it enough thought.

[digging]

I actually completely agree with this, but I didn't bring that up specifically because, as an autistic person with ADHD, I have gotten pretty poor responses in the past from saying my needs should be considered by UI/UX designers. There's not a lot of public will to consider autism and ADHD to be "real" disabilities and I'd love to see that change.

[hoherd]

It sounds like being accessibility tools wouldn't be enough because they would also need to be non-commercial, which excludes most of (all of?) the popular third party apps.

[goda90]

RedReader is entirely open source and has accessibility features.

[mustacheemperor]

On the other hand, quoth the OP thread

>One of our moderators, u/itsthejoker, has had multiple hour-long calls with various Reddit employees. However, as of the current time, our concerns have gone unheard, and Reddit remains firm.

Doublespeak from reddit's management is not exactly uncommon, and it seems like something is mismatched between what they communicated in that article and what's related in the thread.

[tedivm]

The AskHistorian's mods put together a small list of reddit admin promises to moderators that were broken:

Admins have promised minimal disruption; however, over the years they’ve made a number of promises to support moderators that they did not, or could not follow up on, and at times even reneged on:

    In 2015, in response to widespread protests on the sub, the admins promised they would build tools and improve communication with mods.   

    In 2019 the admins promised that chat would always be an opt-in feature. However, a year later an unmoderated chat feature was made a default feature on most subs   

    In 2020, in response to moderators protesting racism on Reddit, admin promised to support mods in combating hate   

    In 2021, again, in response to protests, Reddit’s admin promised a feature to report malicious interference by subreddits promoting Covid denial.

[flangola7]

That really is just shameful. I feel dishonest telling white lies to strangers to make a 3 minute interaction easier.

[jacobsenscott]

Translation - if we can exploit your free labor we'll allow it. Otherwise get bent.