[bko]

> Child exploitation is not an immediate downstream effect of having illegal immigration. It is a downstream effect of having an exploitative system.

I disagree. You have people outside of the system. It's hard to pass a law that protects these people because they are outside of the legal system by being undocumented

> people overstaying their visas or escaping violence.

Most of the people that are caught up in this situation came without a visa so please don't conflate the two.

> I feel like the point you are trying to make is that "It's only the exploitation of people who came here illegally, so it's no big deal."

Quite the opposite. I'm saying that pretending like having open borders and having all these undocumented workers and turning the blind eye necessary leads to exploration. And this includes exploitation of children. It's not humane to just pretend there isn't a problem. This is the same logic that thinks it's compassionate to let mentally ill people sleep on the streets and self medicate

[giraffe_lady]

They aren't outside of the legal system, labor laws don't discriminate by immigration status. They know that if they seek redress under those laws, they will be punished under others.

The system prioritizes immigration enforcement over the rights & safety of workers and children. The system chooses not to protect them. Other choices are possible here don't pretend this is the inevitable & only outcome there could be.

For example we could easily give temporary immigration amnesty to victims of alleged crimes. Instead we have ICE camped out at family court, companies like this using the threat of deportation to keep their exploited workers in line. To the point of using child labor. Look at what you are defending here.

[green_man_lives]

Couldn't have said it better.

[anonymouskimmer]

You quoted earlier: "are permitted to remain in the U.S. and are remanded to the custody of the Department of Health and Human Services, which delivers them as quickly as possible to a sponsor"

Which means that they are not "outside of the system", and not without documentation (as minor-aged asylum seekers).

[green_man_lives]

> It's hard to pass a law that protects these people because they are outside of the legal system by being undocumented

It's really not. Don't deport people who file labor complaints. You can protect undocumented workers quite easily.

> Most of the people that are caught up in this situation came without a visa so please don't conflate the two.

I don't care if they came without a visa or overstayed a visa or literally walked across the border. I think borders are arbitrary and see very little difference anyways.

> I'm saying that pretending like having open borders and having all these undocumented workers and turning the blind eye necessary leads to exploration.

You are claiming something to be inherent when it is not. Illegal immigration does not create exploitation. Threat of deportation creates exploitation. If the threat of employer retaliation didn't exist, if illegal immigrants were educated about our labor laws, there would not be as much exploitation. It's really simple, I feel that you are being obtuse.

> This is the same logic that thinks it's compassionate to let mentally ill people sleep on the streets and self medicate

Nobody thinks it is compassionate to "let" people live on the streets, they just don't think cops should forcibly remove the homeless. Compassion would be giving them housing and treatment, but you wont see many "liberals" supporting free no strings attached housing.

If by self-medicating you mean harm reduction by giving opioid addicts heroin then I wouldn't say that is compassionate, just the bare minimum. When the alternative is them overdosing on fent or dying from withdrawals.

I think you haven't really thought very hard about these things because your arguments are very tired and simplistic. The answer is not more cruelty, nor is it the half-measures you see in San Francisco or Seattle or whatever. The policy solutions are pretty simple and are supported by empirical evidence in many countries and case studies.