[judge2020]

Pretty sure you do - any indication that even regular auto-steer+ACC is engaged during a fatal incident is cause to sound the alarm bells and put out a headline for "Tesla Autopilot killed this person!". The first fatal accident involving FSD Beta is going to be a multi-week long charade of media attention and pressure on regulators to exclaim "despite this being 5x safer, you must gate this until it's literally infallible".

[_kidlike]

first?

https://www.tesladeaths.com/

[simondotau]

> > The first fatal accident involving FSD Beta

> first?

According to your own citation, there are no deaths where FSD Beta has been alleged to be involved in any way.

[_kidlike]

So a Tesla driving off a cliff, is OK because it wasn't using the "FSD Beta" or whatever that idiot is marketing as the latest buzz?

Shouldn't the public be already outraging from the existing deaths? what's the difference... There will not be any change with an FSD death. As there wasn't with the previous deaths. Most people just don't care.

[simondotau]

Is it okay, you ask. Yes! Yes, it is okay to be factually accurate. It's not okay to be factually inaccurate in order to reject evidence which contradicts your position.

> So a Tesla driving off a cliff

This is a lie. There is no evidence that any Tesla vehicle has ever driven itself off a cliff.

Perhaps you are thinking about media reports from a few months ago where a human drove their vehicle off a cliff? If so, it is concerning that you misremembered and/or misrepresented this news event in this way. This news event was of a human driving a vehicle off a cliff. That vehicle happened to be a Tesla — noteworthy only because experts were saying that the chassis did an astoundingly good job of protecting its occupants.

No use of driving aids was ever alleged.

> Shouldn't the public be already outraging from the existing deaths?

Yes. A million people are killed by vehicles driven by humans every year. A million people dead. Every year. This is an outrage.

As for deaths where use of Tesla Autopilot is indicated or alleged, I find them no more outrageous than deaths involving any manufacturer's brand name for lane centering/adaptive cruise control. These features do not lower the driver's responsibility to keep the vehicle under control. And they do not diminish the accountability of the driver in the event of a collision.

[ravishi]

Isn't that an empty criteria? Doesn't the system disengage before an accident by design?

[judge2020]

Tesla says “ we count any crash in which Autopilot was deactivated within 5 seconds before impact, and we count all crashes in which the incident alert indicated an airbag or other active restraint deployed” https://www.tesla.com/VehicleSafetyReport

But even without that, there are no allegations of such FSD beta related fatal or incapacitating incidents, who would say it even if the beta put the human in harm’s way 10, 15 seconds earlier. The black box in the car includes both the dash cam camera and whether auto steer is activated, so any fatal crash would still leave such evidence of Beta being active.