[dahwolf]

Always funny to see SV people not understanding SV, thinking the rest of the world is underpaid.

SV is an planetary anomaly. Hundreds of billions (if not more) of capital free to invest in highly risky undertakings. That's why you earn 200K or more. An enormous surplus of capital with a high tolerance for failure.

That type of capital simply does not exist anywhere else in the world. And this only strengthens the SV effect, like a gravitational force.

Trust me, it's not because Europeans have more holidays. Companies simply cannot afford to pay these salaries anywhere in the world except in SV. Because they quite simply don't have these types of budgets.

To put things in perspective, if you'd travel around the world and call out the number 200-300K/year, people everywhere will assume you own a factory or are some other huge deal. They most certainly will not think of a microservice developer.

[_8j50]

That is ridiculous. What SWEs get paid is not dissimilar to what pilots and engineers get paid (with experience) in the US. People get paid what it costs to replace them. You're just trying to justify SV "enterpreneur" greed with that logic. If you can pay someone 10k/yr in the US you probably would even with a $20M valuation and 10 person head count. The insane SV valuations are also unheard of and all these marvelous tech companies are also not being born in London or Vietnam or some other place, they are in the US and they also pay that much just to starve the competition of talent.

This is why even as an SWE making $300k you should think seriously about forming a nation wide union and this is also why they're copying each other with layoffs because their profit and what they pay employees is increasing at a similar rate.

"Well 200k is a lot of money by comparison but multiple 10M+ rounds for 5+ years with no profit is totally normal" lol.

You all should also fight agressively for laws that prevent companies from outsourcing talent, unless you haven't learned from the 2000s.

To all of you founders and execs, go to countries with cheaper salaries and bigger taxes, nobody is stopping you.

The nerve on these rich people, it's not enough they evade taxes and pay less than small businesses but they also have to nickle and dime their own employees!

[dahwolf]

You're making so many incoherent disconnected points that I'm not sure what you're actually trying to say.

[_8j50]

Alright, then let me rephrase it simply: SWE should be getting paid as much as they can collectively negotiate and companies who already get the best tax deals should tuck their tails between their legs and be happy about it. I don't care what people get paid in random places, it has absolutley no relevance other than govs should not allow a company to profit in their country if it is not offering competitive salaries and instead outsources. The only beneficiaries can't be the super rich company owners and shareholders.

Pay tax or pay really good wages.

To @pokepim whom I can't reply to because the comment is dead: nah, I am not even a developer and your skills are irrelevant, your replacabilith in the market is all that matters. These companies raise insane capital, get insane tax benefits and cuts and the lowest taxes and most lax employment laws in the developed world and also want to bitch about 200k salaries in places where median house costs are in the millions. If vietnam devs are so good, I am sure vietnam (or any country) will have amazing companies that raise crazy valuations and pay them good enough to afford a house to live in?! Right? Tell mee when I can save 50% of 20k/yr in the US and buy a house in the US? In cali I would have to save for like 100 years lol. I am all for outsourcing if it means houses and other CoL in the US will have the same prices as the places outsourcers live at.

[bruce511]

As someone who lives in a low-cost-of-living place, and who occasionally contracts to US companies, let me phrase it this way.

I'm very happy with $x. I don't really care what a SV person gets. Thats irrelevant to me and makes zero impact on my standard if living. If $x is smaller than a US salary then the employer is happy too.

Once employers figure out your job can be done remotely (something the WFH cohort are bending over backwards to do) they'll discover the global labour pool is huge. And astonishingly smart. And speak good English. And are prepared to work US time zones.

Salaries are willing buyer, willing seller. If your salary offer of $60k puts me easily in the top 1% of salaries in my country, then I'll take it, and be happy.

[_8j50]

I completley understand and support your position. That's why companies can't easily do global remote, outsourcing is not exactly a new concept in tech. These companies are playing capitalism but the people buying their shit aren't. Companies exist to benefit people, people don't exist to benefit companies, that's why every country has labor laws to protect its people from greedy companies, but if a greedy company benefits you for the time being, enjoy! But keep in mind, the salary they pay offshore is funded by taxes and income onshore. The problem really is US empoloyment law here.