[myshpa]

You'd still get pus, blood, endotoxins, hormones (like estrogen), pesticides/herbicides (organic farms still usually use them), etc.

Only 40% of consumers in UK [0] know that a cow has to give a birth to a calf to be able to give milk. Male calves are usually immediately killed these days, or sold for meat in a few months (together with 25?% of female calves). In dairy industry calves are removed from their mothers the day they're born (only 27% of consumers know this), in beef industry they're usually kept together.

The saddest story I've seen is a mother cow who gave birth to two calves. Because she was not first-time mother, she prepared. One calf was immediately taken away, the other she managed to hide somewhere in the fields. Of course when the farmer found about it (insufficient milk output), he located the calf and took it away. I can't find it, but here is a similar story. [1]

All dairy cows are forcibly impregnated every year, are spent after 5-6 years to the point where they often can no more walk [2], and instead of a normal life which would be 20-48? years (upper number is the record) they're taken to the slaughterhouse [3].

> humane conditions for the cows

That doesn't exist, not even on small local farms. Humane? It's an oxymoron.

[0] https://plantbasednews.org/culture/ethics/brits-willing-go-v...

[1] https://www.trendcentral.com/mother-cow-hides-calf/

[2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcN7SGGoCNI - Dairy is scary!

[3] https://www.dominionmovement.com/watch

[PrimeMcFly]

Humane treatment is not an oxymoron at all.

There are farms like this [0] which are certainly humane. And the farms suggested by Dr Temple Grandin also qualify as such, although I'm not aware of any farm actually implementing her methods.

[0] https://gnecofarm.org/

[myshpa]

90+% (IIRC) of slaughtered animals in US are from CAFOs.

Any kind of slaughter is inhumane when there's no NEED to eat meat. The clean process you may have seen in TV is different from reality (see recent CO2 chambers relevations [0]).

Taking away mother's young and taking milk mother produces for her (him is killed usually immediatelly) is inhumane. [1]

Etc.

I've seen Dr Temple Grandin's "Glass Walls" ... she is not the right person for the job of representing "humane animal treatment." Yes, she says what you want to hear. But not the right person for the animals.

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVebmHMZ4bQ

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcN7SGGoCNI

[PrimeMcFly]

> 90+% (IIRC) of slaughtered animals in US are from CAFOs.

Sure. That's an argument for reformation though.

> Any kind of slaughter is inhumane when there's no NEED to eat meat.

That simply isn't true. Humane simply means inflicting as little suffering as possible. That's it.

> The clean process you may have seen in TV is different from reality

I'm well versed. I've been arguing against veganism for the last few years.

> I've seen Dr Temple Grandin's "Glass Walls" ... she is not the right person for the job of representing "humane animal treatment." Yes, she says what you want to hear. But not the right person for the animals.

She is very well respected in her field and her work is solid. If it makes things better for animals, why resist it?

[rolisz]

But then aren't pesticides and herbicides a problem for a plant based diet too?

[myshpa]

In meat & dairy it's concentrated, at much higher levels.

https://nutritionfacts.org/topics/pesticides/

"While some plant foods may be contaminated, animal food intake is the biggest source of certain pesticide exposure for both adults and children. Pesticides, as well as antibiotics, manure, pus cells, cholesterol, and saturated fat have all been found in milk. Factory farmed fish have higher levels of DDT and other banned pesticides than wild-caught fish, and even fish oil supplements may be contaminated with PCBs and insecticides. Many pesticides take a long time to degrade – the U.S. made arsenic-based pesticides illegal years ago, but they still persist in the soil. Similarly, though DDT was banned in the U.S. for agricultural use in 1972, people may still be exposed to the pesticide through contaminated dairy products and meat."

"Overall, those eating plant-based diets have been found to have a lower levels of pesticides than omnivores. Rinsing produce in a salt water solution may be an effective way to reduce pesticide residues on produce."