[nine_zeros]

Oh yes, the old,

"Everyone gotta have ID because what if there is voter fraud"...even if it eliminates the right to vote for some people.

"Everyone gotta get preauthorization from insurance because what if there is insurance fraud"....even if the delay kills someone on the hospital bed.

"Everyone gotta carry REAL ID because what if some people are illegal"...even if the delay in getting REAL ID causes legal people to lose their jobs.

The only place this "Everyone gotta do XYZ" trope doesn't apply is in gun licensing and arms background checks.

I have said this in the past, but I will say this again: "America is a country based on denial of rights".

And that one statement explains all the history of America - slavery, red-lining, captive insurance, broken legal immigration, broken college admissions, school-districting etc.

[em-bee]

"Everyone gotta have ID because what if there is voter fraud"...even if it eliminates the right to vote for some people.

how does having an ID eliminate the right to vote?

"Everyone gotta carry REAL ID because what if some people are illegal"...even if the delay in getting REAL ID causes legal people to lose their jobs.

how about fixing the delay then?

these seem non-problems to me. at least they are non-problems here. an ID or a passport is required from the age of 16, and you can apply for it early enough. passports are issued even from birth. there should never be a situation where you don't have an ID unless you forget to renew it. and even then, if there is real urgency and you can't wait a few weeks, you can get a temporary ID. so noone is going to loose their job over this, and noone is prevented from voting.

[WirelessGigabit]

You are absolutely not required to get an ID or passport at the age of 16.

You can walk on the streets without carrying ID, unlike many European countries.

Because of the driving culture in the USA not driving / having a DL means you need to take other steps to get an ID.

But the law does not require you to have an ID.

In general I do like the idea of having to prove ID when voting / for work, however I am weary of the government collecting so much data. The less they know about me the better.

Same goes with DLs. I give my address, DMV sells it and I get car warranty spam. Should be illegal.

[em-bee]

i was talking about the country where i am from, and here you absolutely are required to have a government issued ID.

i got my first personal ID i think at 16, but since i was traveling a lot i also had a passport and decided that i didn't need to bother with having a personal ID too. the personal ID displays my home address, while the passport doesn't. a tiny win for my privacy whenever i need to show an ID.

even without an ID here everyone needs to have their address registered for tax purposes (because you pay taxes where you live) so the government already has that information. the ID doesn't give them any data they don't already have.

[nine_zeros]

Of course, fix the delay. Do it. Show me the will to address these problems.

[em-bee]

that's the real issue.

[kika]

Line 5 and 6 seem to contradict each other. From 5 it looks like you want to more "gun licensing" and in line 6 you want not to "deny rights". Whereas gun licensing (any licensing, technically speaking) is the denial of right. And any argument (of which there are many valid ones) for gun licensing is precisely what you're arguing against: "Everyone gotta have The Gun License because think of the children" ... even if it deprives someone from the right to protect their life.

[nine_zeros]

I think you missed the part where I say: "The only place this "Everyone gotta do XYZ" trope doesn't apply"

This means that the only place where the denial of rights is not applied systematically is in gun rights.

Another way to read it is: Every other right is treated worse than gun rights. And that is unfair to any unbiased observer.

[Clubber]

Gun ownership rights are constantly being attacked, I'm not sure what you're talking about. Freedom of speech is also constantly under attack, as is press. Religion is constantly under attack too. Freedom of assembly is almost non-existent. Any government redress is fine as long as it can be ignored. That's just the first two amendments.

[nine_zeros]

They are attacked because people can see that guns are given more rights than humans.

[Clubber]

>They are attacked because people can see that guns are given more rights than humans.

What nonsense. The right to own guns by citizens is what is being attacked.

[kika]

law abiding citizens. for criminals it's usually other way around ("progressive" DA drops the gun charge and the rest becomes misdemeanor, etc).

[kika]

but you don't have soldiers in your home! at least 3A is fine.

[Clubber]

Well, unless you consider the NSA eavesdropping on you via internet logging and credit card purchases in your home. I guess the NSA isn't technically a soldier.

[kika]

that's 4A and its state sucks ass. NSA is not military so they are of course welcome to stay!

[kika]

No, gun rights are violated much more and more deeply than for example 1A rights. Convicted felon who paid their debts to society can absolutely post on Quora and be a recognized popular author there and become a radio or TV host, etc. And felony absolutely doesn't mean violence. Driving 50mph above speed limit in Florida could be a felony. Buy a Ferrari, lose your gun rights!

[Clubber]

Rights for me and not for thee.

[samstave]

>"America is a country based on denial of rights"

"America masquerades as a country based on Freedom, where a democracy gets to vote on politicians whose sole purpose is personal wealth-growth and/through the denial of others' rights ; to protect the former"