[Wronnay]

"Why hasn’t the number of deaths by suicide decreased?"

That housing and groceries is getting more and more expensive certainly doesn't help with that...

Of course, not so many people in this world suffer anymore from hunger but in the last years additional problems came up.

I know some older people who think that Depression is just a excuse for not wanting to work but these older people had it easier to build or buy a house than my generation - so I think more that the rising Depression in many is a symptom for an live which gets more and more difficult and them not being able to deal with it.

[Name_Chawps]

You truly think housing and food have anything to do with it? We live in the richest society in history, and also the most suicidal. Why don't people living in true poverty around the world feel depressed and kill themselves like we do?

Why do we kill ourselves? It's because we have no communities anymore. Many of us are alone. Some call it a loneliness epidemic. And we've replaced community with social media. Our society is sick, and it has nothing to do with needing more housing or whatever your pet political issue is.

[s1artibartfast]

I think it is more than just loss of communities, although that is a big part of it.

It is also a hallowing out of the human experience and the inability to enjoy simple pleasures available to anyone alive.

Consumerism is so deeply entrenched in the minds of people that they usually blame their unhappiness on a lack of material goods and external factors.

Meanwhile, There are millions or billions of people who can find pleasure and satisfaction with with practically nothing. Enjoying a quiet cup of tea in hovels, reading books for pleasure, or taking in everyday beauty.

To me, this indicates that a large part of dissatisfaction on depression are about mindset, which should be obvious.

[Der_Einzige]

Mental illness and mental issues are systemically underdiagnoaed in the third world. I do not believe for a single second that third worlders have better mental health than first worlders. The average third worlders has seen ultra traumatic experiences that simply do not happen to the average first worlder.

[s1artibartfast]

I do think that third worlders have better mental health than first worlders with respect to depression.

Different people respond in wildly different ways to hardship and trauma. The difference in outcome between two people is internal, not circumstance. It is impossible that it could be otherwise when you some people have experienced the worst the world has to offer and are relatively happy, while some others have experienced the best and are suicidal.

Furthermore, know that the same people can be depressed or happy despite the same material external circumstances, depending on their outlook.

Depression especially hinges on mental perspective, perspective, and conditioning. It stands to reason that this could vary culturally and geographically for many reasons.

It would be absolutely unethical, but I think you could raise two sets of children to be more depressed or happy with the same material quality of life. Raise one group telling them they are helpless, worthless, and that the world is a terrible place. Tell them that you will give them riches and always disappoint them. Take the other and teach them to have low expectations but enjoy simple pleasures. Equip them with cognitive tools to deal with the challenges of life and disappointment in healthy ways. Do you think you would see a difference between the two groups?

[twelve40]

Well the first group you mentioned is borderline abused so of course they would be miserable. The second group is interesting.

> enjoy simple pleasures. Equip them with cognitive tools to deal with the challenges of life and disappointment in healthy ways

is this really fully teachable? Is it something that truly can be trained or it depends on a very complicated number of external and internal factors, including genetics?

as far as this part: > teach them to have low expectations

Sounds kind of simplistic to say that, but there is always this worry that having low expectations leads to McDonald's, where you may realize that no you actually expected much more out of life, but by that point it's kind of too late and pretty hard to dig yourself out.

[s1artibartfast]

I would agree that the first case could be construed as abuse, but this type of abuse is relatively common to some degree.

My point was more to illustrate the fact that cognitive development and personality impact how people experience the world, and is probably the biggest factor in what we consider depression.

The point is to show how trivial it would be to bias humans towards depression and thereby illustrate the importance of the psychological component.

I don't think that you can teach kids in a way that's 100% successful, but I still think it is a huge Factor, probably then the biggest. There's vast amount of data that backs this up.

When it comes to my statement about expectations, it is obviously more nuanced. What I meant is low expectations for how easy life will be in that they will have to overcome challenge and that a happy and successful life requires work. Also low expectations for the material necessity is to have a happy life. I look around today and see lots of peers who think they can't be happy without owning a home. Owning a home is admittedly more difficult now than in the past, but even then something like 40% of people would never be homeowners in their life. If that's a prerequisite for happiness, you have doomed 40% of the population to be unhappy

[harimau777]

If they have a spouse and kids, then perhaps they are simply better off than someone who is wealthy but alone.

[s1artibartfast]

yeah, I think that is a big part of it. Or people who have friends, social groups, ect.

It can also have to do with what you focus your attention and spend your time on. Maybe watching the 40+ hours of TV a week that average Americans do doesn't actually make people happier, and sitting around a coffee shop and playing games (a cheap and common past time in some poor countries), is better for mental health.

[twelve40]

maybe. I tried to play board games with my boys many times, but even something as simple and potentially enjoyable as Monopoly or cards quickly turns our warm relationship into a nasty pissing match. We actually turned to movies and shows for that reason (or more collaborative types of games but that's harder to come by)

[s1artibartfast]

I don't know you or your family so I would never comment on whether I think your choices are healthy or not.

My point was more General in that people can make poor choices for themselves that leave them unfulfilled and worse off.

[badpun]

> We live in the richest society in history, and also the most suicidal.

Actually, the US is not even in top 30 of countries with most suicides per capita. And of course, it's probably better than most at actually keeping records, which means that it should be even lower down the list.

See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_r...

[Wronnay]

> Why don't people living in true poverty around the world feel depressed and kill themselves like we do?

That actually happens. There are just not enough statistics about that because nobody cares.

I remember a documentary about a part in China with a very high suicide rate - mostly because people couldn't find a job. Another example would be the Irish Travellers - a community which has it hard to find a job and has a way higher suicide rate than the rest of the UK.

[firstplacelast]

Absolutely, yes.

I can’t speak for everyone, but for whatever reason those things cause me (a very middle-class person) a lot of stress.

Maybe because of what I was taught or how I grew up or my experiences, which are not the same for everyone, but it’s still there. I’ve been food insecure, been temporarily homeless, had to bounce around from place to place without much money to my name when younger.

Not being able to put down roots stresses me out. Will rent go up? Will landlord sell my place (has happened before), will I need to move to the middle of nowhere in my late 40’s and start all over building a community?

I’m not looking for a nice SFH as a need, just a mediocre condo, but in a very expensive place. It’s where the jobs are, unfortunately. Relying on other people’s income (roommate/spouse) does not solve this issue for me.

While there are many different issues for many different people, not being able to carve out a space for yourself is very stressful for many people.

I’ve talked about this in therapy. Get married or look at all the poor people worse off is what I am told. Not helpful.

It is what it is, I guess.

[imtringued]

Don't Google suicide by fungicide in africa.

The suicides are mostly caused by financial obligations, most commonly by farmers who borrowed money to buy proprietary seeds. People who practice subsistence agriculture have no financial obligations.

[ChuckNorris89]

> these older people had it easier to build or buy a house than my generation

Also easier in finding a job with an employer that would invest in your training and invest in the community and a stable economy where your wages, purchasing power and savings weren't obliterated overnight through the stroke of a pen that also pushed housing prices up by the same amount.

The fabric of society and community has degraded in the last couple of decades since the 2008 bust and it hasn't gotten any better. It's now "grab everything you can while you can, screw everyone else, or be poor".