[mvdl]

I am looking forward to the book and am particularly curious if it will address the origin of "conspiracy cultures" as I personally feel a lot has to do with governments and media plain lying and manipulating. It keeps me puzzled why conspiracies are not simply addressed but somehow need to be silenced instead. Maybe the book will provide insight or answers.

[pjc50]

You can't address conspiracy theories because they can be generated much easier and quicker than they can be rebutted. And attempts to do so just mark you as "part of the conspiracy".

"The Paranoid Style in American Politics" (1964), prev on HN https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24964931

(Although I might be inclined to agree with you that there are real, very obvious, unaddressed "conspiracies" that kind of happen while simultaneously everyone is aware of them but can't "see" them. Mostly to do with the operation of political donations, but things like the Sackler opiate scandal had evidence ignored for years. Or the Clarence Thomas bribery allegations.)

[thr-nrg]

The great replacement is a supposed conspiracy yet everyone in here complains how raising children is too expensive, how immigrants are imported to fill in for the missing people and how they accept wages lower than what natives would accept.

But somehow putting three simple facts together makes you a white nationalist. Which is odd since I wasn't white when I immigrated here.

I find the same is true for most other conspiracy theories. Epstein showed that there are a lot of very rich paedophiles. Covid responses around the world showed that vaccine passports were very much on the cards. And on and on.

It's pretty disheartening to see the ideology which was supposed to keep power in check worship it instead.

[pjc50]

> But somehow putting three simple facts together

It's putting the observations together in ways that assign intent and blame in ways that don't make sense that's the problem. You can't add 1+1+1 and make 5.

(Especially in a country like the US that's literally built out of immigrants; is the argument that the US should revert to its 1600 population levels and their descendents?)

> Covid responses around the world showed that vaccine passports were very much on the cards

Well .. yes? They've been a thing for certain diseases for years. The US used to screen for TB at Ellis Island. I had to get a Yellow Fever vaccination with a little card in my passport to be allowed into Peru. And so on. What's the conspiracy?

> Epstein showed that there are a lot of very rich paedophiles

Now you're on to something; the way in which a lot of people will cover for sexual exploitation because it's happening among people they're friends with. #MeToo etc. Ronan Polanski. This one is hard to unravel. But you have to stick to evidence or you end up in a pizza parlor without a basement with a gun.

[TurkishPoptart]

>What's the conspiracy?

That media executives and politicians were paid off by Big Pharma to promote an experimental prophylactic (does not actually prevent infection, unlike every other vaccine in existence) under the guise of a campaign of fear to inject as many people as possible, even though only elderly/obese/very sick people would really receive a marginal benefit. Oh and if you had a bad reaction, you can't sue the manufacturer.

And still even today in the US, little kids are getting the mRNA treatment, when they are more likely to die from drowning than a coronavirus.

[eli_gottlieb]

>But somehow putting three simple facts together makes you a white nationalist.

Well not quite. It does make people expect that you're about to blame me somehow wanting to "breed out" white people, which puts them on guard and makes them hostile. Personally I observe the same phenomena as you but I'm not allowed to point them out either, because I can hardly blame myself.

It's a very strange experience, being the conspiracy world's favorite supposed conspirator but still seeing what people are trying to explain by turning to conspiracy theories.

[adfginionio]

The great replacement conspiracy theory is that a shadowy group (probably the Jews) is deliberately encouraging immigration, encouraging non-white people to have lots of children, and preventing white people from having children, all as a form of genocide. This is completely dead wrong. We don't really see "native" populations being replaced, and to the extent that we do it happens despite the efforts of people in power. The fact that a conspiracy theory contains a kernel of truth, or at least plausibility, does not justify the flights of fancy that follow.

Epstein was running a massive sex trafficking ring. Hillary Clinton was not running one out of a pizza parlor.

The CIA experimented with mind control. It did not use radio telescopes and chemtrails to do it.

The government has videos of weird things in the air. It does not have captured alien spacecraft.

Certain people actually did try to steal the 2020 election. Joe Biden was not one of them.

>Covid responses around the world showed that vaccine passports were very much on the cards.

This is strange to me. Of course they were on the cards! We've handled pandemics before. All these supposedly sinister tools have been used in the past. There's no need for cloak-and-dagger scheming when governments have well-tested legal authority to simply mandate vaccination.

[throw9away6]

On the election stealing it was both trump and Hillary so that’s kind of a pattern now

[cannabis_sam]

It’s just the continuation of an American tradition that has been with the US since the founding fathers.

Benjamin Franklin objected to “swarthy” german immigrants: https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2008/02/swarthy...

Chinese, Italian, Irish, Eastern Europeans, Mexicans, the list just goes on..

There is always external (or externalized in the case of African-Americans) forces trying to dilute the purported “purity” of the hegemony, despite the fact that the country has always been defined by continuous immigration.

It’s just reactionary people desperately yearning for an imaginary past. One of the classic tropes of fascist movements like white nationalism, christian nationalism or the generally sclerotic and reality divorced movement that worships Trump.

[Timon3]

> The great replacement is a supposed conspiracy yet everyone in here complains how raising children is too expensive, how immigrants are imported to fill in for the missing people and how they accept wages lower than what natives would accept.

> But somehow putting three simple facts together makes you a white nationalist.

This is pretty easy to understand - the important part of the conspiracy theory, and the one your three simple facts are missing, is: there is no conspiracy to do these things. Yes, people in developed countries have below-replacement birth rates, but is that because there is a cabal of evil people trying to genocide them? Or is it due to numerous individual decisions by individual actors creating economic and social circumstances which lead to lower birth rates?

Same goes for your other points. There are simple, logical and realistic explanations that don't need some grand conspiracy to make sense. If you still choose to look for the evil cabal who want to destroy white people, what are you, if not a conspiracy theorist?

[eli_gottlieb]

False dichotomy! There can be structural explanations for sociological phenomena that don't put things down to aggregates of individual preferences and also don't resort to blaming an imagined cabal of lizard-men.

[Timon3]

> False dichotomy! There can be structural explanations for sociological phenomena that don't put things down to aggregates of individual preferences and also don't resort to blaming an imagined cabal of lizard-men.

What dichotomy am I proposing? I simply said that there is not one evil group conspiring against white people. It's possible that there are multiple groups with nefarious intent (e.g. to suppress wages, or to extract more money from the population), but surely we can all agree that the idea of "The great replacement" is ludicrous? Did this site drift so far to the right that even this statement is now controversial?!

[krapp]

"structural explanations for sociological phenomena that don't put things down to aggregates of individual preferences" aren't necessarily conspiracies. The mere confluence of interests and incentives does not form a conspiracy.

The premise of replacement theory is that "the elites" are willfully and actively conspiring to replace white people, culturally and politically, with non-whites and eventually render the white race extinct. That they're doing it on purpose. Meeting in dark, smoke-filled rooms and planning it out.

Regardless, even in the absence of an active and willfull conspiracy, interpreting socioeconomic trends through the lens of race is still racist. Being concerned that globalism and immigration suppresses "native" wages isn't racist - but people need to learn in that case that what they hate isn't immigrants, but capitalism, because that's just efficient markets doing exactly what they're supposed to do. Being concerned that globalism and immigration suppressing "native" wages is an effort to commit white genocide and destroy white culture is what makes it racist.

[thr-nrg]

There is no conspiracy to steal people's wages? Gee then why do big tech firms get caught doing it every few years: https://phys.org/news/2015-09-415m-settlement-apple-google-w...

[Timon3]

> There is no conspiracy to steal people's wages?

How did you get that from what I wrote? I legitimately have no idea. Do you think that "The great replacement" is about wage suppression?

[wefarrell]

If you believe that a powerful group of people are deliberately trying to decrease the number of white people and replace them with imported non-white people and that they must be stopped then yes, that makes you a white nationalist.

[timeagain]

Every conspiracy contains a simple (but wrong) solution to a complex emotional issue. They’re like a “doctors hate this one trick” for politics and science.