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by ergvgdvgrd 1126 days ago
For your next act, defend the British pronounciation of "Worcestershire".
7 comments

I don't think I can.

The pronunciation of "Gloucester" (gloster) and "Leicester" (lester) follow a similar scheme for the "-cester" bit which leads to "Worcester" being pronounced "wooster", but Worcestershire sauce is often pronounced "wooster sauce" which doesn't make much sense.

Apparently, Frome in Somerset is one of the hardest place names to pronounce in England, though it certainly doesn't compare to some Welsh towns. (I say it as "froom")

I think the sauce is either Worcestershire Sauce, or Worcester Sauce, either is acceptable.

Worcestershire and Worcester follow the same patter as Gloucestershire/Gloucester, Leicestershire/Leicester and (Towcestershire doesn't exist)/Towcester. Towcester, incidentally, being the same pronunciation as "toaster".

The one that annoys me is Cirencester, which is usually "sai-ren-ses-ta", and only occasionally "sai-ren-ster".

> The one that annoys me is Cirencester, which is usually "sai-ren-ses-ta", and only occasionally "sai-ren-ster".

Or, according to my grandmother, "siss-iss-ter".

Just found a Devon town called Woolfardisworthy, but can be pronounced as "Woolzery"
I like the Northamptonshire village of Cogenhoe, which is obviously pronounced cook-no.

It sits on the River Nene, which is pronounced Neen or Nen depending on which bit of Northamptonshire you live in (Northamptonshire is not very big...)

I think the accepted authority on anything to do with Northamptonshire has to be Alan Moore.
Locals just call it “Ciren”…
It took me a surprising amount of time to work out where (Ciren) they were talking about after moving to glow-sester-shire...
I mean, Sir Terry was British after all. cf https://wiki.lspace.org/Jonathan_Teatime
It amuses me when english words are pronounced differently to make them seem posher. We have a nearby town called Yate (rhymes with gate), but the posh version rhymes with latte.
"It's spelled 'Raymond Luxury-Yacht', but it's pronounced 'Throat-Wobbler Mangrove'." https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7uv0n8
> "wooster sauce"

"That's just incorrect. It's pronounced "wooster-shuh". The double-O is short, as in "book". Worcestershire Sauce is sometimes simply called "woosters", as in "a dash of woosters".

> Frome in Somerset is one of the hardest place names to pronounce

Hardly. It's pronounced "froom". That's not so hard.

I got Frome from here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-somerset-49813249

I agree that it's not tricky to pronounce, but the difficulty is pronouncing it correctly.

Worcestershire sauce can be called "wooster-shuh sauce" or "wooster sauce" or as you say, "woosters".

> The double-O is short, as in "book"

Bad example, since some accents pronounce "book" like "kook" (not like "suck") ;)

Fair do's; scousers indeed pronounce "book" as "bewk".
One of my ambitions in life is to make a pronunciation guide using example words that are pronounced differently by different people.
There’s a town in Massachusetts called Worcester, pronounced something like Wooster/Woostah/Woostuh.
>There’s a town in Massachusetts called Worcester, pronounced something like Wooster/Woostah/Woostuh.

And there's a Gloucester[0] (pronounced 'Gloster' or, more likely in MA 'Glostah') there as well. And there's one[1] in Virgnia too, (Wikipedia says it's pronounced 'Gloster', but I don't know the VA accent well enough to know if that's locally correct).

There are other similar place names around the US, mostly on the eastern seaboard, for obvious reasons, as well.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gloucester,_Massachusetts

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gloucester_County,_Virginia

The pronunciation is what it is. The orthography is the problem.

(Many words place names long pre-date any kind of attempt to regularize English spelling, and in any case come from fusions of Brythonic, Norman, Roman, Norwegian etc languages. This is why it's difficult to predict the pronunciation of one word from the spelling of another.)

100% my point. Drawing a line at the purity of "maths" over "math" is the beginning of a rock fight in a village of glass houses.
Maybe, but 'we can't provide logical rules for names acquired over a millennium ago' seems like a poor reason to say 'therefore we shouldn't apply consistent rules to recent conventions'.

Someone asked about physic ... well people used to use physick in [late medieval?] British English... but that's for what we might call medicine now.

It's due to being invaded by many different counties over the years, and each of them only invade a portion.

Map men explain it best.

https://youtu.be/uYNzqgU7na4

Before the Normans, "shire" in Britain was written in Roman letters as "scr".
Oh, defending the pronounciation is easy, because the problem is not with the pronounciation at all -- it's all about English language spelling not keeping pace with the changes with the pronounciation.
Why is "Jack" short for Johnathan?
Jonathan -> John/Jan -> Jankin (adding -kin as a diminutive) -> Jack

That is at least the theory I've heard

Likewise, Why is 'Peggy' short for Margaret?
You start with a pinch of dyslexia and end with a bit of a lisp. Pretty straight forward when you imagine what it would sound like in a game of telephone between 10 5 year olds.