[andybak]

> voice of counterculture

> Shane Smith is a Canadian journalist and media executive and former billionaire.

I can't be the only person who finds the application of the term "counterculture" here rather a debasement of the concept.

[brigandish]

> Before Vice, Smith went to university in Ottawa, played in local punk bands, and travelled around Eastern Europe before moving to Montreal.

I’m not sure why money would be the measure for whether someone was counter-cultural enough, especially when they made their money through providing something that the mainstream (at the time, certainly) was not.

[2devnull]

Counter culture != being in a punk band

Maybe it did in the 70s. But anything past that it’s basically the opposite. Punk music is oldies; literally half century old tradition at this point. It’s like calling folk music counter culture.

[brigandish]

Smith was born in 1969, and being in a punk band was counter-culture right up to the point in the late 90s when Americans in the mainstream started to reuse the word (when grunge was being replaced) for bands that clearly weren't punk.

Aside from that, what does age have to do with being counter-cultural or not? The word you're looking for in your example is "new", or possibly "trendy".

[2devnull]

Ok, that puts him in the zone of “real” punk. I was thinking he was a millennial. And no offense intended to any young punk rockers. It’s just a different thing when you’re imitating your parents or grandparents generation down to wearing the exact same clothing. Nothing wrong with that, but it ain’t counter culture.

[RankingMember]

Ouch. I think there's still plenty of post-70s punk that's counter-culture (see, for example, Leftover Crack), but I think you're right in that "pop punk" definitely dulled the edge of the genre in general.

[coolandsmartrr]

You should look into Vice's origin as a underground music magazine.

[nerdponx]

The content definitely felt that way at one time.

[user_named]

You're just clueless. You don't know anything about vice.

[andybak]

I know very little about Vice but even after taking into consideration everything posted here, I'm still rather dubious that this is sufficient to warrant the label "counterculture"

> You're just clueless.

And you're just rude.

[user_named]

Everything you said was wrong, yet you said it with such confidence. Why don't you just admit you're wrong and don't know what you're talking about.

[andybak]

I said

> I can't be the only person who finds the application of the term "counterculture" here rather a debasement of the concept.

which isn't an objective factual statement and is therefore neither right nor wrong. Maybe you meant to use a word like "unjustified"?

[user_named]

Vice was born out of and defined the counterculture of their era. Again you don't know what you're talking about.

[andybak]

Or maybe, just maybe, people have different definitions of loosely defined words such as "counterculture".