[hayst4ck]

I agree-ish with you, but I think it would help if you made it clear why: "We should kill all the Russians in Ukraine" is different than "we should kill the russians who don't think we are a country." (When does context matter?)

I also think it would help if you made it clear if there is a distinction between "We should kill all the Jews" and "we should kill all the people who want/are planning to kill all the Jews." (When does precedence matter?)

I would assert that your definiton should probably be changed to speech used to oppress. Violence inciting speech against the oppressed seems like hate speech, but I don't think I'm on board with violence inciting speech against opressors being classified as hate speech.

Of course the opressors always see themselves as the oppressed so that muddies things even more.

What is your test for whether something is hate speech or not?

[ShroudedNight]

> "We should kill all the Russians in Ukraine" is different than "we should kill the russians who don't think we are a country."

I think you dropped some nuance. Killing all Russians who are in Ukraine in an effort to violently coerce Ukrainians and their government to comply with the will of the Russian government is different from both "We should kill all the Russians in Ukraine" and "We should kill the Russians who don't think we are a country"

[hayst4ck]

Yes, I was not being careful enough.

"We should kill all the Russians in Ukraine" -> "We should kill all the Russians invading Ukraine." is probably the right phrasing for the question I was asking.

[hutzlibu]

Yes and this is a important distinction, as there are many russians in the ukraine not supporting the invasion. They happen to live there.

And they feel threatened with such statements, as they are sadly way too common.

[Freak_NL]

> the ukraine

You might want to switch to just 'Ukraine' without the 'the' when referring to the country. 'The Ukraine' is an outdated way of referring to the region without conceding that is also a valid and sovereign nation. Since the invasion this term has taken on further connotations.

[hutzlibu]

Yes, that's a valid point, I am usually aware of, but just forgot.

[TheSpiceIsLife]

You two have gone of some bizarre deep end here.

How's about we not kill anyone and find a peaceable solution.

[hayst4ck]

Peace requires justice.

If there is no justice, there can be no peace.

If you support peace in the presence of injustice, you support the injustice.

So it is a good exercise to think about the language we use to describe injustice such as hate speech.