[ianbutler]

I'm never going back. I only type and respond to things unfolded, I have big hands and the split keyboard + bigger buttons are great. Outside of that I'm a fairly big reader and I enjoy reading both articles and books unfolded and have no interest in bringing a second device to do so.

I also write notes with stylus on it which is practical unfolded. More real estate for video etc. And then I can just fold it and use it as a phone for calls.

[0x6c6f6c]

Yeah reading the specs, it's s larger screen than my Nexus 7 tablet, with a smaller overall device size, and fits in my pocket.. it's tempting. But definitely pausing at a $1800 price tag

[usrusr]

You have it reversed: it's not "we want to make a foldable phone, how expensive does it need to be?", it's "we want to ask $1800 for phone, what could we offer to find buyers".

The biggest problem in the market of exceptionally expensive phones is that they don't really look all that different from cheaper ones. Foldable phones solve that.

[troyvit]

Yeah I think you're right. Phones have been pretty much the same since the first slab came out. I mean screen-size got bigger, DPI got higher, "stuff scrolls really smooth now!" These -- to me -- are just incremental changes to the same features from 2013 and aren't great motivators to drop the phone I have into the landfill and get a new one. It seems phone companies are casting about for a new gimmick.

[usrusr]

Also true, but that's not what I meant: buyers not replacing the phone they have often enough is solved, battery decay and lack of updates. But there's not much that sets the $1000 replacement apart from the $300 replacement. A $1800 replacement? The market for a $1800 phone that is as obviously different from the rest as a foldable is many times bigger than the market for a $1800 phone that is just better somehow. My prediction is that unless some cheap newcomer brand shows up with a foldable, none of the established will ever make the first move and offer their foldable cheaper, no matter how low the actual cost might be.

[kyriakos]

If this was around the 1200 price point they'd be selling like crazy. Chewing into the premium android and iPhone share. Google would have been a trend setter with foldables if they offered a lower price.

[davidy123]

My theory is Google doesn't want to be too competitive, they mainly want to enable the Android market. If they're too competitive, Samsung, Motorolo, Oppo, etc will change to a different base. Google benefits from Android anyway by its embedded core of Google services.

However, I think with the -a series (7a, etc) they've turned to filling a gap with a reasonably priced high quality device, because Samsung &c low priced handsets are really terrible.

[kyriakos]

That's a good theory, could also explain why pixel devices are only available in only a small part of the world population.

[drexlspivey]

What other OSes are out there to choose from?

[bombolo]

I'm waiting for the great symbian comeback!

[revelio]

Android forks.

[kyriakos]

huawei seems to have found a way around google since they were restricted from using it.

[aetherson]

If they're selling them at $1800, they'd almost certainly be taking a steep loss selling them at $1200.

[kyriakos]

Of course they would. What I said was hypothetical but if it could have been done it would be a market disruptor.

[midnitewarrior]

Perhaps there will be a Pixel Fold Express (a) or some other moniker for a value-focused foldable that's more easily attainable for the masses? I'm trying to think how much money I'd need to make a year where dropping $1,700 on a device with a 3 year lifespan makes sense. I'm thinking I'd need to be an executive that works around the clock before I could justify that expense. Everyone has different values of course.

[kyriakos]

3 years life span is questionable considering pixel 7 and 7 pro quality issues (falling buttons, cracking camera glass)

[radicaldreamer]

It is if you're using Google Fi -- $700 off with 24 month commitment to keeping Google Fi

[emptysongglass]

Fi user here: I don't see this offer anywhere. Inside the Fi store it shows a $1000 trade-in offer but that's it.

[bippihippi1]

https://fi.google.com/about/promo-terms/?id=Cf_80IW--gUA&pli...

[hackernewds]

that seems like a fine tradeoff. I'm already on Fi, and the service is great, even internationally

[llampx]

Exactly. Have a barebones screen on the front or no screen at all, and make it cheaper. I get that they want it to be premium, but it doesn't need an expensive high-refresh OLED screen for both screens!

[christkv]

Just a matter of time really. 24 months ?

[rrrrrrrrrrrryan]

They're $1100 if you subscribe to Google's phone plan

[emptysongglass]

I'm a Fi user and don't see this offer. I've scoured every page of fi.google.com: nothing. Just a trade-in offer.

[bla3]

https://fi.google.com/about/promo-terms/?id=Cf_80IW--gUA&pli...

[echelon]

That sounds nice, but I want the same foldable form factor for entirely opposite reasons.

I want a rough, minimalistic foldable like the old school Razr. Something that can take abuse.

I want to be able to flick it open and close with the snap of my wrist and stuff the folded form factor back into my pocket without worry.

I don't care if there's no screen covering the bezel. That'd make it less durable anyway. Two screens, similar to the Nintendo DS is fine.

I'm sick of the smartphone slab and exposed glass. I want a wallet shaped device with a protective plastic or metal shell on the outside.

[kibwen]

Samsung makes a flip phone with a foldable screen that opens into a standard candybar form factor: https://www.samsung.com/us/smartphones/galaxy-z-flip4/

[Thorrez]

Have you seen the new Razr? https://www.amazon.com/Motorola-RAZR-Phone/s?k=Motorola+RAZR...

[bombolo]

> I don't care if there's no screen covering the bezel. That'd make it less durable anyway

If it doesn't crack 5 days after you got one, how will you buy a new phone?

[iknowstuff]

Why.

Put your slab in a protective case and a screen protectir and you get a much more durable device than flip phones ever were.

[adastra22]

And now it is a giant brick that doesn’t fit comfortably in your pocket.

[dragonwriter]

Get a bigger pocket.

[bombolo]

Will do, after I grow up another meter -_-'

[echelon]

If the glass faces in, it'll start emergency dialing. If it faces out, it'll scratch.

[mywacaday]

I have a note 10+ and the stylus is a game changer, I would like a wider screen for taking notes but can't justify the cost. Also my note is nearly 4 years old and showing no sign of slowing down or battery issues.

[LeonenTheDK]

No sign of battery issues is huge, I'm still rocking my 3 year old Pixel 3a and recently replaced the battery, it was a night and day difference. General slowness/lack of responsiveness, half day battery life. Been like that with all my other smart phones since 2013. Would love my next phone to go on year 4 with no sign of battery degradation (although in lieu of that I'll take an easy to replace battery).

[aqfamnzc]

> night and day difference

> slowness / lack of responsiveness

Are you saying that replacing the battery improved your phone's responsiveness? I knew there was a throttling thing with iPhones but hadn't heard of anything outside of that.

[bluk]

Samsung, OnePlus, and other phone manufacturers have all been accused of throttling phones and have acknowledged the throttling and/or released patches to give more user control. You can google "<manfacturer name> throttling" and get new reports of throttling as recently as last year for Samsung.

[joecool1029]

> Samsung, OnePlus,

Blame bad Samsung fab. Things like the Qualcomm 888 chipset were notorious for overheating like crazy requiring throttling (used in both Samsung and some Oneplus devices). Need TSMC. Apple had issues all the way back to like 6S era when they sourced from both and the TSMC ones just ran better.

You can override it with a custom rom and messing with EFS on those devices but it's already flirting with battery dangerous temps doing gaming. Better to buy TSMC or strap an icepack to the phone lol.

[pandaman]

My wife's Nexus 6 would only play games at what appeared to be 2 fps unless hooked to a charger after three years. And those were just some 2D puzzle games, not COD, so I imagine other 2D apps were not running at full speed too but it was extremely apparent on games.

[lwkl]

A degraded battery can't deliver as much power as a new battery and for your phone to feel fast you have big cores to boost to over 3 GHz which requires a relatively high voltage. These voltages aren't possible with a degraded battery and that's why your phone feels slower.

[usrusr]

The voltage range of aged batteries is the same as the day they leave the factory. Or it could be even larger if the BMS is set up to sacrifice a little nominal capacity für lower wear when new, slowly widening the range as capacity decays. The temporary voltage drop while drawing a large current will be bigger on an older battery, that much is true. But that would still be a smaller delta than the one between fully charged and not at any age. If there's performance difference, I'd expect it to be from deliberately yearning performance/runtime trade-offs (which arguably are better to have than not have)

[iopq]

Why don't you actually take some lithium ion batteries and keep checking the voltage? Because mine have dropped to 1.3V

now, I noticed they weren't 1.5V to start, so they are crap, but it seems it just only goes lower as they age

[zw7]

How do you feel about the lack of security updates? I miss the smaller size of the 3a bit upgraded since they stopped shipping software updates. I'm hoping you can talk me in to resurrecting it.

[jonhermansen]

I believe you can install LineageOS on any old Pixel and still get updates. Though the type of updates will be limited. https://www.lineageos.org/

[pizza234]

YMMV may vary a lot with LineageOS, unfortunately.

I was a big fan, but:

- Nexus 5X support was terminated

- Pixel 1 support is broken; the device used to reset daily (works fine with the original OS)

- They have at least one serious open issue (GPS not functioning, although it can be worked around)

In the end, I had to buy a new phone, that is officially supported. I still donate, but I don't hold my hopes high anymore, anytime that a device gets out of official support.

[j45]

Only charge up to 80% battery unless you need the full charge and the battery generally lasts much longer

[rtpg]

Is there a place that has empirical data on this stuff? Like what battery factoids are still true with the latest devices or not?

I would honestly love for phone manufacturers to outright build in some software to build in best practices if they actually exist. Don't let me charge to 100% at first or something!

[cfiggers]

AccuBattery is an Android app that gives battery usage statistics and more detailed readouts from the OS w/r/t battery condition and charge/discharge behavior.

Their help portal has a research summary explaining their sources (the most recent of which is from 2010, so battery tech has likely improved in some respects but it's still a useful reference point): https://accubattery.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/210224725-...

[fomine3]

Chargie is another solution for the problem and links to researches https://chargie.org/

[bluk]

I don't believe Apple has released empirical data, but Apple has optimized phone charging built into recent versions of iOS (Settings > Battery > Battery Health and Charging). It will stop at 80% and then resume charging to 100% about an hour before you start using your phone every day. iOS tracks your daily habits to determine the start of your day.

In the most recent iOS versions, if it can determine when "clean energy" is available near your location, it will also try to charge only during those time periods. I don't think any 3rd party has determined if it is effective.

[alpaca128]

This feature exists in Macbooks too, but it's useless to me - it never works because apparently my usage pattern doesn't convince the smart system to limit charging, and it gives me no manual control whatsoever. I think I'd have to always keep charging the laptop for it to kick in.

Just gimme a slider that lets me tell it to only charge to 80% and be done with it.

[andrewaylett]

At least some Android devices have the same, it keys off your alarm if you have one set. My Pixel 6 Pro will also take advantage of chargers' ability to supply different amounts of power to not charge as quickly as it's physically capable of doing if it thinks I've put it on charge for the night.

[ewoodrich]

My iPhone 12 mini spends 95% of its life on a MagSafe charger and has never charged to 80% after a year with this setting enabled. I wish Apple would add an explicit option like "Protect Battery" on Samsung devices.

[itsyaboi]

Get into the quadcopter hobbyspace, you will learn more than you ever wanted about battery chemistries.

[rtpg]

I just want to know how much of this stuff is “batteries in the fridge” stuff

[kevin_thibedeau]

You'd be better served by leaving power save mode on all the time (No haptic touch or animated UI) and minimize brightness to extend the intervals between charging.

[j45]

I’m pretty sure you should be able to find data. Only a handful of battery manufacturers used.

Phones typically are geared to use the full capacity of the battery.

The demand towards the thinnest phones possible leaves smaller tolerances towards cramming in the biggest battery possible.

I think the galaxy note 4 was the last one with a removable battery therefore something that could run a long time.

An external battery case depending on how you use it can extend the lifespan of an internal battery too.

[kybernetikos]

I've seen the longevity graphs for lithium ion (don't know about other chemistries, but there's still a lot of lithium ion around). Ability to retain charge drops off faster if the battery is kept fully charged, especially in warm temperatures.

My electric car by default only charges to 80% unless you tell it you're planning a long drive in order to conserve battery life.

[qdl]

My Note10 has this. You can switch on battery protection and it will stop charging at 85%

[wolpoli]

The quadcopter community has dig up research on the longevity of lipo batteries under different charge levels. Note that they do push their batteries really hard. Their findings apply as long as the latest devices still set 4.2V as 100%.

[ChoGGi]

Mind if I ask what battery you purchased?

[poglet]

Went from a Note 8 to iPhone. Lack of stylus bugs me all the time. One of my favourite features was being able to hover over foreign language words and it would translate them, even if the word was in image or a button on an application.

On iOS if you wanted to translate the text on a button you have to take a screen capture, then translate the screen capture.

This was possible partly because of the stylus hover feature, but also because the Android permission model allowed for applications (translation service) to 'see' the screen of other applications. Something I don't think iOS allows.

If you enjoy using foreign apps, learning languages or living in an area with a different language the Samsung Note series was fantastic.

[ta_man_ios_961]

Happy to help! iOS has a few built-in ways of translating text that generally involve long pressing and hitting translate from the menu or selecting the text, tapping the selected text, and hitting translate in the menu. If you select measurements, unit conversion is also in this menu.

However, every way involves the text being [selectable] text and not something like an image (unless you use your method). And you said button, and I am not positive if a long-press will trigger the press event.

[bebna]

Got a regular Note10, my battery is basically dying slowly. Yes, I used battery helper tools to regularly only charge to 80%...

[j45]

It’s always good to own the phone that people can’t understand or looks like a gimmick.

It’s how the iPhone looked to bb users.

It’s how the Note 1 Phablet looked compared to 4” smart phones

You can only go so big in a phone.

If Apple nails the iPhone max that unfolds into an iPad mini while minimizing thickness, it will be hard to ignore.

[option]

pixel fold doesn’t seem to have a stylus, does it?

[ianbutler]

I use a Fold 4, which technically doesn't either, but Samsung provides a sort of dumb stylus that works pretty well plus case for some small additional amount. I imagine Google can do something similar.

[cma]

The Fold 4 stylus is Wacom, not a "dumb" capacitive stylus if that is what you mean (unless you specifically bought that). Maybe you meant no recharging needed?

[ianbutler]

I was mostly talking about in contrast to the pro styluses that seem to have broader utility like a clicker, gestures and whatnot. I agree that this is not a capacitive stylus, I don't believe the writing fidelity and lack of lag would be nearly as good.

[saghm]

You don't necessarily need one to come with the phone; there are third-party stylus(es?), and as long as you have a decent way to store it in your pocket or on the the case, it's still handy.

[thekaleb]

This is not true. There is a big difference between a capacitive and active stylus. You must have your screen support an active sounds stylus.

[saghm]

What part isn't true? I didn't claim that it would satisfy everyone, just that it might come in handy for some people. Having done this myself, I can confirm that the set of people that I claim exist is in fact non-empty.

[zmmmmm]

yeah lack of stylus is a killer for me - I would use the samsung one instead just due to that. hoping this spurs Samsung to make their next version even more compelling and also ensures Google mainlines all the OS support for foldable phones - and then I can get a foldable with a stylus.