[brookst]

But that means the culture is also broken. Credit isn’t something you can steal in the dead of night; everyone knows who did the work.

At some point, if someone says their company hires cheaters, promotes thieves, and has a culture that celebrates those things. . . either there is more to the story or that person needs to run like hell because the company is toxic.

[pdpi]

> Credit isn’t something you can steal in the dead of night; everyone knows who did the work.

Sadly, that's not how it works in practice. In fact, a person I worked with was the perfect counter-example.

As an SEM, he routinely portrayed his engineers' ideas as his own when talking to senior management, he committed to unrealistic timelines, shipped utterly broken code to meet those timelines, then cast blame on other teams for the brokenness. (E.g. blaming the mobile team for broken responses in his team's backend APIs). Things like that.

At some point, it became sort of a self-fulfilling prophecy. Because senior management saw him as the guy who delivered, they dismissed the complaints about his behaviours as the cost of doing business, so they never really acknowledged that he wasn't delivering in the first place, so the people complaining were cast as jealous b-tier whiners.

[ryandrake]

Seen the exact same personality at many employers, it's like they all come from the same factory. I can smell it a mile away now.

OP is right though, that all CreditTaker's peers know he isn't doing any of the work, but it doesn't matter because companies are hierarchal and CreditTaker is the only one talking to execs above him, so his story is what gets passed around as reality. His peers who know the truth are too busy doing the actual work.

[sota4077]

Exactly. I commented to a different person, but I will repeat it here.

Taking credit doesn't look just one way. Very few mid-level management types will delegate work then when the work is completed they go to their direct report and say "Hey look what I created all by myself with no help. Pretty great huh!?" What happens more commonly is that they will delegate a project to team members A & B and have them come up with a solution to a problem. When the project is complete A & B show it to manager I. Manager I then goes to manager II and says "Here is what my team came up with as a solution to our current problem." Manager I had little to no involvement in the work or development of the solution, but they present it as though they had. That happens constantly in the working world. A good manager and leader will always mention, by name, who did the work.

[ryandrake]

And it keeps going. Manager II will tell Manager III "Here are the things my org has done!" and Manager III will tell VP "Here is what my product line has achieved!" and VP will tell CEO "Here is how profitable my business unit is!" and CEO will tell the board and the world "Behold what I have done!"

It's credit-taking all the way up.

[itronitron]

>> everyone knows who did the work.

Not the people deciding rankings and promotions.

Consider that every manager, over the course of a year, has things they want done but which they can't directly task people to do because those people either have defined job responsibilities or require a job code to charge their time while performing the task (which the manager can't, or won't, provide.)

Now consider that there are some employees that care more about doing what their manager wants than they care for doing their job (shocking I know.) They will happily take on the 'extra-credit' tasks without regard for any collateral consequences because when it comes time for annual reviews the manager will place them at the head of the queue for promotion.

And yes that does mean that the culture is broken and it's probably why so many people hate their jobs.

[sota4077]

>But that means the culture is also broken. Credit isn’t something you can steal in the dead of night; everyone knows who did the work.

I'm not sure that is true. Plenty of mid level management types will assign work to the people they oversee on their team. Then never make mention of who actually performed the work when they present the completed product to the folks above them. It is incredibly common. One way this also happens is to have a mid-level manager delegate a project to someone. They quite literally do all the work. Then they present it as a team effort later on when it wasn't because as a team effort it gives the appearance of their involvement.

Taking credit by omission of information is still taking credit.

[icedchai]

Many "upper management" types have no idea who actually did the work.

[actionfromafar]

They care more about “who made it happen”.

[icedchai]

That PM who can barely open a spreadsheet made it happen, of course.

[sokoloff]

Everyone knows who committed which piece of code. It's much less clear the origin of ideas. Did my comments spark an idea in your head? Did you share that with someone else who made it slightly better? If so, what's the split among me, you, and the third person for that idea?

If we surveyed the three of us and asked for the percentage contribution, that would typically add up to more than 100%.

[lotsofpulp]

This same process can be applied on a community/country level.

Trust is invaluable, and you will not see its savings enumerated on the P&L, but lack of trust will eventually find itself on the P&L, due to ever increasing costs.

[jatins]

> ... because the company is toxic

I mean one of the companies they mention is Amazon

[hgsgm]

Amazon might be unethical or immoral or unpleasant, but it is extremely successful at its founder's goal.

[FooBarBizBazz]

It has succeeded at making Bezos money.

It has become the premier cloud provider. That wasn't the original goal, but it's good for them.

As a marketplace it is degenerating into an absolute mess. The force that maintains Prime membership is about 70% inertia.

[tough]

One can imagine AWS surviving longer than the marketplace in 10-20y

[drewcoo]

Or they're the "smartest guys in the room!"

/s