[soco]

Nobody I know orders their beer "ein Untergärig bitte" (Switzerland here). Although not THE name, still everybody knows what a Lager is (as in, whether they want a helles or dunkles). Yes of course there's the camp meaning as well, but you wouldn't mix that up in a Kneipe. Only when you read just a random internet article and you have zero context to know which is which - even though this phrasing would be really weird if it referred to a camp (for me, non-native English speaker).

[schroeding]

Yeah, Lager inside a Kneipe / Wirtshaus is obviously meant in the "category of beer" way. At least here in Bavaria, it would just be "ein Helles" (or "ein Dunkles"). :D

Regional differences between Bavaria and Switzerland may show here. As an example of "Untergärig" used instead of Lager: https://www.giesinger-shop.de/zum-trinken/9-giesinger-erhell...

[soco]

This is commercial advertising, a product description. That has of course its place but it's something different from the daily usage, which is what I meant. You wouldn't order at the Theke ein Untergäriges, or would you???

[schroeding]

> At least here in Bavaria, it would just be "ein Helles" (or "ein Dunkles"). :D

No, I wouldn't. And you wouldn't just order "a Lager", right? I kinda think we don't actually disagree. :)

The only difference may be that, if asked what kind of beer a "Helles" is, expecting some kind of category other than "Helles", I would answer "untergäriges Bier" and you may answer "Lager". Both are correct, one description focuses on the ability to keep the beer in storage in the ice cellar of the brewery, the other on the brewing process. What we both probably don't do is also e.g. call a Pils a Lager. In my experience, some of our american friends do that.

My point was that the US definition of beers that are "Lager" is very broad, way broader than in Germany (and probably also Switzerland & Austria) and that some parts of Germany even use completly different words for a similar categorization.

[soco]

Ahhh I think I finally got your point - that basically everything is confusing (as even my favorite porters can be untergärig). And I also learned that the Austrian Märzen is not exactly what I'd expect, so all in all an interesting beer thread :)

PS I wouldn't order a lager either. If I didn't care what they have (very rarely) I'd order "a beer" and live with it, or otherwise I'd ask for the choices.

[phillc73]

And in Austria, a Märzen.