[dev_by_day]

> Do you have real examples of western governments taking down independent journalists using free speech to speak truth to power? Because that would do a lot to win me over.

Belarus:

"Freedom of the press in Belarus remains extremely restricted. State-owned media are subordinated to the president and harassment and censorship of independent media are routine. The government subjects both independent and foreign media to systematic political intimidation, especially for reporting on the deteriorating economy and human rights abuses. Journalists are harassed and detained" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_in_Belarus

Turkey(which is mix of eastern and western but is part of the EU so I think counts):

"Turkey has earned an accolade which holds no glory: according to the Committee to Protect Journalists, it is the biggest jailer of journalists in the world" https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2017/02/free-tur...

[hayst4ck]

I would not say Russia is the west and Belarus is clearly more Russian than European. Nobody could say "Russian free speech" with a straight face. At best Belarus is a Russian vassal.

Turkey is more complicated. Given it's religious demographics, location, and politics, I have a hard time calling it west. I agree that as part of the EU and its political relevancy, turkey merits some consideration. I would be surprised if turkey could get a .com taken down or get an American extradited to them, but I'm open to being wrong about that.

I don't think OP is asking about being critical of Turkey. I think OP is asking about UK/AU/NZ/US/FR/DE/CA.

Assange and wikileaks seems like the only thing I can think of that might be relevant, and I am pretty on the fence about it. I would probably agree with someone who called wikileaks pro-fascist, yet at the same time the idea of wikileaks is liberal and respectable. Whistle-blowing is good, but whistle-blowing selectively to manipulate who is in power is definitely bad.

[pinguin3]

Russia and Turkey are not part of the West because they have distinct cultural and historical legacies that have shaped their societies in different ways. Russia has been influenced by Eastern Orthodoxy and communism, which emphasizes communal identity and submission to authority, and has a long history of autocratic rule. This has led to a political culture that values obedience to the state over individual rights and freedoms. Similarly, Turkey has been shaped by its Islamic heritage and its Ottoman past, which has fostered a collectivist and authoritarian ethos that is at odds with the individualistic and democratic values of the West.

[BWStearns]

The Belarusian state is very much not Western by any political cultural definition. Lukashenko rigged the shit out of his election and then had to beg Putin to send some ОМАН forces to help put down nationwide protests.

[rbnio]

Turkey is not part of the EU.