[ChrisMarshallNY]

I started in '83 (paid to code, at 84-5).

I would still be working for someone, except the industry doesn't believe that I should be. I was frozen out, pretty hard.

Instead, I work for free. I really enjoy coding, and it's actually been vastly freeing, having my own schedule and structure.

[derwiki]

Could you say more about how you were frozen out? (or link to it if you've already written about it) Thanks in advance!

[ChrisMarshallNY]

Well, it's kind of a well-worn whine, with me. If you browse through my history, you'll see me mention it, from time to time.

TL;DR: I worked four jobs, in my career, with the last one being 27 years (25 of them as a manager, as well as tech). That was at a pretty highfalutin joint (a famous Japanese imaging company).

I finally got laid off, at 55, and started looking for work, and found the culture had changed drastically (I actually had done fairly well at keeping up with the tech, as that was my job). Old people like me, were very unpopular.

The interview process was pretty damn humiliating. It was made clear, that, even if some company did me the huge favor of granting me a job, I would be treated like crap. It was personal. People didn't like me, because of my age. In a couple of cases, they didn't bother hiding it, at all.

I decided "Bugger this for a lark," and retired early. I had the means, but hadn't been planning on it, for at least another decade.

As it has turned out, it was a blessing in disguise. Being able to do my own designs, process, and releasing, has been a joy. I've had to keep the scope humble, but it's really been great. I'm working with a nonprofit startup, where I'm actually helping a few younger folks to learn the ins and outs of what it takes to ship software.

I like working. I would have been happy to work for a great deal less than most folks, was willing to take risks on startups (as I was already set, anyway), had thirty years' experience shipping, would have been loyal, honorable, and had a fairly vast array of skills and experience, but, you know...eewww...gray hair...

[yodsanklai]

It's very sad, and that'll affect most of us. Ironically, with all the "woke" thing going on, you would expect people to be more inclusive, but it's not the case.

[esafak]

Age is not a variable in anyone's DEI calculus.

[ChrisMarshallNY]

Ageism is actually just as illegal as racism, homophobia, sexism, or religious bigotry. Hard to prove, though (unless you are IBM, and discussing it via emails).

It’s just that the American culture, writ large, and, more specifically, the tech industry, has deified youth, to a ridiculous level. It’s sort of a “cargo cult/magical thinking” thing, where people think younger folks can do the impossible, because they don’t have any old people around, telling them that it’s impossible.

Also, my generation has done a pretty good job of screwing things up, and it’s fairly understandable, that the succeeding generations have some resentment, about that.

Eh. It’s water under the bridge, for me, these days. I’m still miffed, but it’s not something I chew over, every night, before bed (I did for a while -I was pissed off). I have lot to do. It would be nice to have the money, and nice to have folks to work with, but I’ve adjusted.

[JohnFen]

> my generation has done a pretty good job of screwing things up, and it’s fairly understandable, that the succeeding generations have some resentment, about that.

(I think we're of the same generation.)

I agree. But I also remember being young and realizing that my parent's generation also did a pretty good job of screwing things up, leading to resentment in our generation, and a fairly overt sentiment that once the old farts have moved on, we'd be the generation that puts things right.

Funny, that.

I rather suspect that every generation thinks like this.

As the truism goes, every generation thinks both that they invented sex and that they're the last generation before the fall of civilization.

[switchbak]

I heard a very similar story about Kent Beck's father. We also interviewed a couple superstar candidates at my company that somehow never progressed through.

I'm just about 45 now, though I'm still able to pass as in my 30's for a while still. But I'm trying to plan for a future where I'm boxed out of doing a job I'm very good at.

This seems like an easy competitive advantage and hiring edge, not sure why some haven't really taken it on.

[esafak]

It's true, though; people who tell you it can't be done are usually older. They could be right, but they could be wrong. To paraphrase Planck, progress is made one funeral at a time.

I think America's cultural preference for the young and the new is serving it well. Making way for the new is why we are programmed to die.

[derwiki]

Thank you for the detailed response--I found this entire subthread interesting!

[pabs3]

What are you working on?

[ChrisMarshallNY]

It’s a “resource locator,” app for iOS, that helps people find other people, and gatherings of a particular organization. Basically, a very simple, secure, social media app.

Quite specific demographic and workflow.

Also, I won’t really be publicizing the app, when it’s done, because the last thing we need, is to have a bunch of curious people, with no interest in the organization, signing up for a quick look-see, then abandoning their accounts.