[ChrisMarshallNY]

Well, it's kind of a well-worn whine, with me. If you browse through my history, you'll see me mention it, from time to time.

TL;DR: I worked four jobs, in my career, with the last one being 27 years (25 of them as a manager, as well as tech). That was at a pretty highfalutin joint (a famous Japanese imaging company).

I finally got laid off, at 55, and started looking for work, and found the culture had changed drastically (I actually had done fairly well at keeping up with the tech, as that was my job). Old people like me, were very unpopular.

The interview process was pretty damn humiliating. It was made clear, that, even if some company did me the huge favor of granting me a job, I would be treated like crap. It was personal. People didn't like me, because of my age. In a couple of cases, they didn't bother hiding it, at all.

I decided "Bugger this for a lark," and retired early. I had the means, but hadn't been planning on it, for at least another decade.

As it has turned out, it was a blessing in disguise. Being able to do my own designs, process, and releasing, has been a joy. I've had to keep the scope humble, but it's really been great. I'm working with a nonprofit startup, where I'm actually helping a few younger folks to learn the ins and outs of what it takes to ship software.

I like working. I would have been happy to work for a great deal less than most folks, was willing to take risks on startups (as I was already set, anyway), had thirty years' experience shipping, would have been loyal, honorable, and had a fairly vast array of skills and experience, but, you know...eewww...gray hair...

[yodsanklai]

It's very sad, and that'll affect most of us. Ironically, with all the "woke" thing going on, you would expect people to be more inclusive, but it's not the case.

[esafak]

Age is not a variable in anyone's DEI calculus.

[ChrisMarshallNY]

Ageism is actually just as illegal as racism, homophobia, sexism, or religious bigotry. Hard to prove, though (unless you are IBM, and discussing it via emails).

It’s just that the American culture, writ large, and, more specifically, the tech industry, has deified youth, to a ridiculous level. It’s sort of a “cargo cult/magical thinking” thing, where people think younger folks can do the impossible, because they don’t have any old people around, telling them that it’s impossible.

Also, my generation has done a pretty good job of screwing things up, and it’s fairly understandable, that the succeeding generations have some resentment, about that.

Eh. It’s water under the bridge, for me, these days. I’m still miffed, but it’s not something I chew over, every night, before bed (I did for a while -I was pissed off). I have lot to do. It would be nice to have the money, and nice to have folks to work with, but I’ve adjusted.

[JohnFen]

> my generation has done a pretty good job of screwing things up, and it’s fairly understandable, that the succeeding generations have some resentment, about that.

(I think we're of the same generation.)

I agree. But I also remember being young and realizing that my parent's generation also did a pretty good job of screwing things up, leading to resentment in our generation, and a fairly overt sentiment that once the old farts have moved on, we'd be the generation that puts things right.

Funny, that.

I rather suspect that every generation thinks like this.

As the truism goes, every generation thinks both that they invented sex and that they're the last generation before the fall of civilization.

[switchbak]

I heard a very similar story about Kent Beck's father. We also interviewed a couple superstar candidates at my company that somehow never progressed through.

I'm just about 45 now, though I'm still able to pass as in my 30's for a while still. But I'm trying to plan for a future where I'm boxed out of doing a job I'm very good at.

This seems like an easy competitive advantage and hiring edge, not sure why some haven't really taken it on.

[ChrisMarshallNY]

> not sure why some haven't really taken it on.

I thought about it, but, in my case, I hated being a manager, and founding something like that would have taken a lot of non-technical, manager-style work.

In my current position, I am mentoring, but in a much less "official" capacity, and I'm very "hands-on" technical.

[esafak]

It's true, though; people who tell you it can't be done are usually older. They could be right, but they could be wrong. To paraphrase Planck, progress is made one funeral at a time.

I think America's cultural preference for the young and the new is serving it well. Making way for the new is why we are programmed to die.

[JohnFen]

> I think America's cultural preference for the young and the new is serving it well

I disagree with this. I think it does the nation a serious disservice. Both the younger and older generations bring distinct and important things to the table. Missing either of them is a serious strategic mistake.

[ChrisMarshallNY]

That's a valid point, but I would find issue about the "serving it well" part.

Some of these Jurassic-scale disasters we read about, all the time (unprofitable -yet huge- companies, imploding, ponzi schemes galore, falsified data, megahacks, etc.), are often of the "Didn't anybody even think about the ramifications?" type of things.

Many of these were almost entirely predictable.

I think the tech industry is experiencing sort of a reboot, right now, with a significant coefficient being decisions (or indecisions) made by people way too inexperienced (not always young. I have watched older folks that retire, jump into a new career, and make the same kinds of mistakes younger folks make, or that try to jump onto the latest buzzword, without understanding) to be in positions to make those decisions.

I agree that older folks are often "killjoys," and can be too damn cautious, but they are also a great resource, if you want your "impossible" projects to succeed. I suspect that a lot of these failures would have been successes, if the principals had simply proceeded in a more disciplined fashion.

The best team, is one made up of a mix of older and younger; with mutual respect, cooperation, and shared values.

The one that comes to mind is SpaceX. Despite their rather ... colorful ... CEO, they have a team made of many younger folks, but also a great many older folks in leadership positions (Gwynne Shotwell is nearly my age).

At the Japanese corporation, where I worked, many employment positions were not available, until the employee had reached a certain age (probably would be illegal, in the US). The company was run by older folks. In fact, they had to carve out exceptions to the mandatory retirement age, to allow the most senior executives to remain.

I'm really big on hybrid/heterogenous teams. I worked on many, in my career.

We don't always get along. A real creative team is always battling and arguing, but they also come together, and pitch in for the finish line. When I was at my last job, I worked with some of the top engineers and scientists in their field. We often wanted to strangle each other, but did great work.

In my experience, the really sick teams tended to be almost preternaturally quiet and "smooth-running." A real productive, creative, team can give the appearance of chaos. It's almost impossible to throw together a bunch of high-functioning, self-confident, ego-driven folks, without friction. Good management prevents the friction from becoming destructive.

[derwiki]

Thank you for the detailed response--I found this entire subthread interesting!