[vhold]

I think people may be overlooking a bigger story here:

https://www.arkleg.state.ar.us/Bills/FTPDocument?path=%2FBil...

  Reasonable age verification methods under subdivision (c)(1)
  of this section include providing:
  (A) A digitized identification card, including a digital
      copy of a driver's license under § 27-16-601 et seq.;
  (B) Government-issued identification; or
  (C) Any commercially reasonable age verification method.

  "Digitized identification card" means a data file available
  on a mobile device that has connectivity to the internet through a state
  approved application that allows the mobile device to download the data file
  from the Office of Driver Services that contains all of the data elements
  visible on the face and back of a driver's license or identification card and
  displays the current status of the driver's license or identification card,
  including valid, expired, cancelled, suspended, revoked, active, or inactive;

[nverno]

Yea that's BS. I didn't have any ID till I was 16 and got a driver's license. A lot of kids, like city kids, don't get one till years later. Are they planning to create a new type of ID for children? I wouldn't want my kids anywhere near social media either, but I wouldn't want to rely on the state to track and police their behaviour.

[ruune]

Another reason why a simple ID which only purpose is being an ID might be useful. No more non-driver drivers licenses

[nverno]

A lot of people do get those currently, just ID cards for non-drivers, also issued through the DMV. Adults need them for various things like voting, food stamps, etc. But I've never heard of a child needing an ID card (aside from travelling abroad), although they could probably (?) get one if they needed - maybe they don't issue them to people under 18 cause there hasn't been any need

[dragonwriter]

I’m fairly certain every state issues (non-DL) state ID at any age people want to apply for it (some, but not all, states require parental approval), but people rarely need them except as adults are maybe late teens (a working teen non-driver may need one.)

ISTR that like DLs, state IDs are a net revenue source, so bills that require more people to get them in practice are, in net effect, tax bills (and because they are closer to capitations than even a flat tax, are regressive tax bills.)

[astura]

>But I've never heard of a child needing an ID card (aside from travelling abroad)

You've never heard of a child needing an ID? Really?

When I was a teenager, teenagers were expecting to earn an income and contribute some of that income to family expenses. To get a job you need and ID and working papers. You got both from the DMV.

Is the idea of a summer job really that outrageous nowadays?

[skydhash]

In Haiti, you can only get an ID card when you become an adult at 18. Anything that requires identification would need your birth certificate and the presence of your parents as you can’t be bound legally otherwise.

[ruune]

Apparently you can also get those under 18. It just feels like a band aid fix, but it's probably good enough, so better spend the millions another ID would cost on actual problems

[LinuxBender]

State ID's have all the same data as a drivers license. The only missing bits are the vehicle class endorsements.

[rootusrootus]

Is that not the status quo? My DMV will absolutely issue me a non-driver ID card if that's what I want.

[flopriore]

Don't you have in the US an ID card separate from driving license?

[astura]

New ID? Nothing new needed, anyone, child or adult, can get a non-driver's id from the DMV. Just need the proper paperwork.

People I grew up with generally started working at 14 and that's when they'd get one. A friend of mine has state IDs for all of her elementary aged children - I assume she needed them for some reason at some point.

[nverno]

I started working at that age too, but certainly didn't need an ID to get a job (and never have at any point in my life, afaicr - and I've never even heard of 'working papers'). Are you talking about in the states? Cause for jobs (at least those that aren't under the table) I've only ever needed a social security number.

[astura]

Everyone who works in the united states must fill out form I-9 to prove your eligibility for employment.

https://www.uscis.gov/i-9

Report card/school records is an option for children who don't have an ID. So ID doesn't appear to be strictly needed until one turns 18.

Working papers are permission to work as a minor - https://dol.ny.gov/working-papers this site says you get them from your school now. Back in the day when I got mine you had to go to the DMV.

[nverno]

Huh, I don't remember needing to get working papers, but I vaguely recall needing a parent signature - I was also pretty rural tho, so you kinda know most people around anyway. Presumably, social security card/birth certificate would be enough as well.

[Thorrez]

The law intentionally bans people under 18 (unless they get parental permission). So people under 16 not having IDs doesn't matter I don't think, since even if they did have IDs they would still be banned (unless they get parental permission).

[dragonwriter]

The law prohibits people under 18 from being account holders without parental permission, but also requires “reasonable age verification” of all accountholders.

Being a minor and having parental permission does not bypass the age verification requirement (in fact, that’s how the platform identifies minors), which is what government ID is enumerated as a means to satisfy.

But, from a data security and privacy perspective its worse, because it maximizes initial distribution of PII by explicitly requiring use of a third-party vendor for age verification of all account holders, so you can’t limit use of platforms to vendors you trust, because they have to outsource age verification.

On the PII side, on the other hand, in what seems clearly to be a drafting error, as written, the law does not allow a social media company to retain “any identifying information of the individual” once access has been granted to the service, which... would be tricky to comply with.

[jjeaff]

I don't see any reason they would need to create an id for children because the purpose of this law is to block all children under the age of 18 from using certain social media. You would only need an ID to prove that you are 18 or older.

[vhold]

In particular I would like people to consider the implications of "state approved application"

[Strom]

> Any commercially reasonable age verification method.

Is being born in 1900-01-01 still reasonable? The linked document remains extremely vague about what is reasonable.

[politician]

It’s ludicrous that proof of ability to operate a motor vehicle is positioned as a prerequisite for using the Internet—- more so given the myriad of ways that a license can be suspended.

[rootusrootus]

Where did you get that it has to be a driver's license? Just get a regular ID card if you don't need to be able to drive.

[politician]

Two of the three options are driving licenses. It’s obnoxious that the third option is administered through the DMV. I’ve never understood why personal identification falls under that department. An affidavit with a notary’s seal should have been sufficient.

So, yes, you’re technically correct, but no, no one is bringing their kids to the DMV for photo ids and not driver’s licenses.

[mcculley]

There is a whole process for it in many states that I know of (e.g., https://www.dmv.virginia.gov/drivers/id/child_id.html).

[jjeaff]

At least in the case of this law, your kids don't need an ID. They can't use the social media until adulthood.

[__MatrixMan__]

> connectivity to the internet through a state approved application

I'm not sure how that will come together, but I hope that circumventing it causes the kids to learn something useful.

[rvz]

Yes. YouTube already does this KYC verification with age restricted content. Not a big surprise reveal here.

Meta will probably follow suit with Meta Verified as well for both Facebook and Instagram.

[A4ET8a8uTh0]

Yeah. A lot would depend on implementation, but it would concern me -- likely worst case being hack to access all SOS DL info..

[2h]

> Reasonable

No definition of that word matches their usage of it. Your papers, please.

https://wikipedia.org/wiki/Your_papers,_please