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by dekhn 1179 days ago
My personal threshold for AGI is literally: discover something new and significant in science (preferably biology) that is almost certainly true by describing an experiment that could be replicated by a large number of scientists and whose interpretation is unambiguous.

For example, the Hershey/Chase and Avery/McCleod experiments convinced the entire biological community that DNA, not protein, was almost certainly the primary molecular structure by which heredity is transferred. The experiments had the advantage of being fairly easy to understand, easy to replicate, and fairly convincing.

There are probably similar simple experiments that can be easily reproduced widely that would resolve any number of interesting questions outstanding in the field. For example, I'd like to see better ways of demonstrating the causal nature of the genome on the heredity of height, or answering a few important open questions in biology.

Right now discovery science is a chaotic, expensive, stochastic process which fails the vast majority of the time and even when it succeeds, usually only makes small incremental discoveries or slightly reduces the ambiguity of experiment's results. Most of the ttime is spent simply mastering boring technical details like how to eliminate variables (Jacob and Monod made their early discoveries in gene regulation because they were just a bit better at maintaining sterile cultures than their competitors, which allowed them to conceive of good if obvious hypotheses quickly, and verify them.

4 comments

At least recognize that the definition of AGI is moving from the previous goalpost of "passable human-level intelligence" to "superhuman at all things at once".
uh, multiple human scientists have individually or in small groups done what I described (I believe we call them "nobel prize winners").

And anyway, the point of my desire is to demonstrate something absolutely convincing, rather than "can spew textual crap at the level of a high school student".

By that definition of AGI, not even most scientists are generally intelligent.
Speaking from personal experience of a career in science, this is true.
>> My personal threshold for AGI is literally: discover something new and significant in science (preferably biology) that is almost certainly true by describing an experiment that could be replicated by a large number of scientists and whose interpretation is unambiguous.

Done many years ago (2004), without a hint of LLMs or neural networks whatsoever:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robot_Scientist

Results significant enough to get a publication in Nature:

https://www.nature.com/articles/nature02236

Obligatory Wired article popularising the result:

Robot Makes Scientific Discovery All by Itself

For the first time, a robotic system has made a novel scientific discovery with virtually no human intellectual input. Scientists designed “Adam” to carry out the entire scientific process on its own: formulating hypotheses, designing and running experiments, analyzing data, and deciding which experiments to run next.

https://www.wired.com/2009/04/robotscientist/

that's a bunch of hooey, that article like most in nature is massively overhyped and simply not at all what I meant.

(I work in the field, know those authors, talked to them, elucidated what they actually did, and concluded it was, like many results, simply massively overhyped)

That's an interesting perspective. In the interest of full disclosure, one of the authors (Stephen Muggleton) is my thesis advisor. I've also met Ross King a few times.

Can you elaborate? Why is it a "bunch of hooey"?

And btw, what do you mean by "overhyped"? Most people on HN haven't even heard of "Adam", or "Eve" (the sequel). I only knew about them because I'm the PhD student of one of the authors. We are in a thread about an open letter urging companies to stop working towards AGI, essentially. In what sense is the poor, forgotten robot scientist "overhyped", compared to that?

That places the goalposts outside of the field though. A decade ago what we are seeing today would have been SF, much less AI. And now that it's reality it isn't even AI anymore but just 'luxury autocomplete' in spite of the massive impact that is already having.

If we get to where you are pointing then we will have passed over a massive gap between today and then, and we're not necessarily that far away from that in time (but still in capabilities).

But likely if and when that time comes everybody that holds this kind of position will move to yet a higher level of attainment required before they'll call it truly intelligent.

So AGI vs AI may not really matter all that much: impact is what matters and impact we already have aplenty.