[carlmr]

>Look at Germany, it's pretty stable if you are a wage earner, especially if you have an engineering diploma. They don't make more kids even though they are safe, and they have generous paternity leave.

Even for those stable engineers, it's hard to afford a home. Also you start earning money late at 25, because you needed those pesky degrees. Now you are 30, have a modicum of money, and want to live a little first. So you have fun until 35. Now you're looking for a life partner, you find them at 40. But you need to be financially stable, so you save up for a downpayment, you wait a few years until 45 to start a family.

You now notice you can't have kids because you're too old. The end.

[Glawen]

I ask my young colleagues in their late 20s early 30s why they don't make kids. They say they don't feel like it, they are afraid of the commitment and prefer to have fun. How long is the fun supposed to be is unclear. I had my fun while being a student, I did my studies in a foreign country, so when I started work I didn't mind having my first child (was 28).

I keep warning them how tiring it is to raise a child, and you better do it while you're healthy.

[hotpotamus]

> I had my fun while being a student

I've never understood the whole "party it up in college" thing. Like number one, I had to go to class and then do school work. I also had to work a shit job to try and not end up drowning in debt for school. I basically did the "996" thing (12 hour days 6 days a week) between school and work for years. It was not a party for me. Also I have zero interest in putting a child through that or many aspects of the modern world.

[Glawen]

Well, having fun is a very subjective thing. I was not a party guy neither but I must admit I did not need to work like you. It is just that I went abroad to study. That was an adventure for me as I could barely speak English at 18. I lived 5 years in the UK, then I worked 7 years in Germany. It fulfilled my need to discover the world and gave me a better insight about what is good or bad in a country.

Now I am having fun by doing cycling trips several days with my son. We are eagerly waiting for the sun.

I don't see what young people see, what is bad about the modern world? We are not at war, we have an incredible comfort, I don't get why it is not a good time to have children (if you want one of course). I think people should just stop trying to plan everything and just do something and improvise.

Disclaimer: having children is a money sink and limiting factor when want to pursue your career, but it is not blocking you.

[hotpotamus]

Well, being somewhat homeless is an issue for me as well. While the idea of being a free spirit is nice, I suspect that society will more or less expect me to provide shelter for said children. As I said, there really are multiple problems with the whole idea.

[aconst]

Agreed : first child at almost 26, second one almost ten years later, it was much easier physically for the first one !

[kkfdkerpoe]

Studying AND "living a little" at the same time isn't that hard with all the exchange programs EU universities provide. Traveling within Europe is also very cheap. It's mainly just an excuse for people who don't want children that much, which is now more common due to cultural changes as well.

Expensive housing on the other hand is a real problem. Requiring a long degree for nearly everything is also dumb.

[carlmr]

I could barely survive on the money I was able to earn during uni. Bafög was denied but parents couldn't support me properly either. So no, I couldn't live a little in uni. I needed a proper salary for that.